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A question for those of you with electrical prowess

Original Post
t.ferguson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 95

Hey there,

I'm doing some prep work for an extended road trip this winter in my Eurovan, which doesn't have any working heat. Is there a way I can plug in a space heater to use while driving without frying anything? Or should I just look for a lower voltage space heater? I am open to any and all suggestions - just keep in mind I have the electrical prowess of a chimp.

Thanks!

Tess

Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

Your current heater will do a better job if you fix it.

If you must get a new heater get one that's runs on propane. Much more efficient/ won't make you burn through alternators and batteries.

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

Do some research if you go the propane route so you dont end up in a pine box.

portercassidy · · UT/CO · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 66
Lee Green · · Edmonton, Alberta · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 51
TFerguson wrote:Hey there, I'm doing some prep work for an extended road trip this winter in my Eurovan, which doesn't have any working heat. Is there a way I can plug in a space heater to use while driving without frying anything? Or should I just look for a lower voltage space heater? I am open to any and all suggestions - just keep in mind I have the electrical prowess of a chimp. Thanks! Tess
You could get a big enough inverter to plug a very small space heater into, but the efficiency would be miserable. You're much better off fixing the van's heater.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Lee Green wrote: You could get a big enough inverter to plug a very small space heater into, but the efficiency would be miserable.
And in the morning you might have enough left in your battery to turn over the engine once or twice....it might even start.
Lee Green · · Edmonton, Alberta · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 51
Marc801 wrote: And in the morning you might have enough left in your battery to turn over the engine once or twice....it might even start.
Good point but even more so. Almost certainly it wouldn't turn over even once. I was thinking of heat while the engine was running, which would be the replacement for the non-functioning engine-based heater the OP asked about. Engine off, even a small space heater would kill the battery in < 2 hr.
Tyson Anderson · · SLC, UT · Joined May 2007 · Points: 126

An electric space heater draws a lot of power. Also they are AC and your van is DC so you will need a big expensive inverter for it to run. An inverter is also only ~75% efficient so the space heater would draw even more power than it would being run from a house. I'd say this isn't the best idea.

I have a propane catalytic heater that I run in my vanagon when winter camping. Catalytic heaters are safe to run in an enclosed space but you have to leave a window cracked because they use up oxygen. One of these would heat your van but I'd say it would be impractical to use every time you want to drive your van. It takes me probably 10 minutes to get mine going and then you have to wait a little while for it to heat the van up. It also will use an entire 1lb. propane tank in one night on the lowest setting.

You could get a propex/webasto/espar furnace which would be an awesome accessory to have while camping. They hook right up to propane/gas/diesel (depending on the type) and run like a furnace does in your house. I don't think they are meant to be used while driving but you could probably get away with it (just don't crash). They are expensive...$800 for the propex and need to be permanently installed.

What is wrong with your heat anyways? Leaking heater core or valve? Shouldn't be terribly expensive to fix, it's a much simpler system than AC. The engine is giving off free heat as a byproduct so you might as well use it.

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

Is the heater in your van broken or is it just not very effective to start with? If it's broken, you should fix it before you spend money on another heater. That way you'll have a defroster for your windshield as well, which is a good thing to have.

I would be surprised if your car's electrical system was designed to handle the kind of current that an electric heater capable of warming the inside of your van would draw. Putting an electric heater in your car sounds like a good way to burn out the alternator, unless you put in a heavy duty alternator and re-wire the car to accommodate the extra power consumption.

Have you considered adding some insulation to your van? that would make any heater you have more effective.

t.ferguson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 95

Thanks everyone! The catalytic heater sounds like a great option. I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with the van's heater, I'll look into getting that checked out. Also- insulating the windows is on the to-do list as well.

Rubber Tramp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 5

The problem with the heater may be as simple as replacing the heater core, but....its a VW and they can be good at over engineering and making simple task extremely difficult. Took 9 hours to replace the heater core on my 93 golf because it required removing the entire dash. Mechanics didn't even want to do it and gave a rough quote of $500+ to replace a $30 part. Great vehicle, until you have to work on them.

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

Perhaps heated car seat covers would help you with your predicament?

PRRose · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0

Old--as in 1960s era and earlier--VWs could be fitted with after-market gas heaters. Installation involved cutting into and redirecting the fuel lines, so even if there is such a thing available for a Eurovan it might not be a DIY project.

I would second the idea of just getting the heat fixed so that you also have a working defroster, which is a safety issue.

When I had a VW camper, I used a catalytic propane heater when stopped. They do use a lot of propane, so it's best to carry a tank instead of relying on one pound cylinders. I also had a secondary deep-cycle battery installed with appropriate circuitry to draw from when stopped to run lights. That way that the primary battery can't be drained.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Definitely get the heater fixed in the van. Maybe you can find someone handy with cars to do the work? If you aren't the first owner, there is a chance the heater core (heat exchanger) in your dash was bypassed once it started to leak. You can tell by looking on the engine block where the hoses are connected. They will be looped or capped off. This is a common way to patch leaking heaters. Since this cuts off the flow of coolant to the core, you no longer get heat.

Anyway, what year is your Vanagon? Maybe we can help you diagnose it online.

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10

.

Dont try to use a catalytic heater while driving. The manual on these warns that they need to be used in a ventilated area (i.e. windows rolled down) or you'll die.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
PRRose wrote:I also had a secondary deep-cycle battery installed with appropriate circuitry to draw from when stopped to run lights. That way that the primary battery can't be drained.
Anyone seeing this should keep in mind that secondary battery systems are non-trivial to install and are not cheap.
Rframe · · Post Falls, ID · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 55
Marc801 wrote: Anyone seeing this should keep in mind that secondary battery systems are non-trivial to install and are not cheap.
All you really need is a battery isolator which lets the second battery charge when the vehicle is running and then disconnects it so you dont drain the starter battery running your lights/toys when vehicle is stopped. Some people accomplish this with a manual disconnect, or you can spend $25 on an automatic disconnect solenoid. The wiring is not complicated.

Automatic aux battery disconnect
England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270

Little Buddy space heater is what I use in the back of my truck in the winter. Has an O2 cutoff, but I still crack a window.

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10
Rframe wrote: The wiring is not complicated.
For a noob? Hopefully the resulting fire caused by the use of 28 gauge wire won't result in any injuries. Of course the OP will have the terminals, mounting hardware, wire tool, etc just sitting around, and what do you do with that ground thingy anyway?

Fuses?
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
Marc801 wrote:Anyone seeing this should keep in mind that secondary battery systems are non-trivial to install and are not cheap.
False.

90 Amp battery isolator is $30 ( amazon.com/NOCO-IGD140HP-14… )

65Ah deep cycle marine battery is $75 using an AdvanceAuto $50 off $125 coupon (they pop up every month or so).

Quality 4ga amplifier installation kit for the fuse/wires is $30 ( amazon.com/KnuKonceptz-KCA-… )

Total investment is $135.

Installation involves installing three new wires:
1) Move the current alternator wire from the fuse panel (or battery) to the alternator connector on the isolator.
2) Connect one output of the isolator to wherever the alternator wire was connected previously.
3) Connect the other output of the isolator to the positive terminal of the new battery, making sure to put a fuse as close to the battery as possible.
4) Connect the negative terminal of the new battery to ground...that is, just attach it some bare metal part of the frame.

That's it. The hardest part is finding a suitable installation location for the isolator if there's no room in your engine bay (I found a spot behind the headlight in my van).

That all being said, an electric heater is not what you want here. Fix the vehicle heater, use gas, or throw on a puffy.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Ian Stewart wrote: False. 90 Amp battery isolator is $30 ( amazon.com/NOCO-IGD140HP-14… ) 65Ah deep cycle marine battery is $75 using an AdvanceAuto $50 off $125 coupon (they pop up every month or so). Quality 4ga amplifier installation kit for the fuse/wires is $30 ( amazon.com/KnuKonceptz-KCA-… ) Total investment is $135. Installation involves installing three new wires: 1) Move the current alternator wire from the fuse panel (or battery) to the alternator connector on the isolator. 2) Connect one output of the isolator to wherever the alternator wire was connected previously. 3) Connect the other output of the isolator to the positive terminal of the new battery, making sure to put a fuse as close to the battery as possible. 4) Connect the negative terminal of the new battery to ground...that is, just attach it some bare metal part of the frame. That's it. The hardest part is finding a suitable installation location for the isolator if there's no room in your engine bay (I found a spot behind the headlight in my van). That all being said, an electric heater is not what you want here. Fix the vehicle heater, use gas, or throw on a puffy.
I was in part basing my comment on this Jeep Wrangler dual battery system when I was looking into dual batteries for my JK. Admittedly on the high side of price points (and that doesn't include the Optima second battery), but with the CanBus computer system in that vehicle, I didn't want to take any chances. No, I haven't bought one yet.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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