Lowering off anchors, rehashhhh
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I distracted the Indian Creek anchors thread and started a pissing match. I ought not have done that. I am sorry, so so sorry. |
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Either one is fine if you know what you are doing and don't f@ck up. If you don't have to untie lowering is easier. If you have to untie it prob comes down to personal preference |
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nicelegs wrote:A system where you don't untie should become the standard.BS, people need to learn to think. You are wanting bringing the !@#$% gym mentally to the outside world. Once ya leave the womb it is a big scary place. Folks need to learn to deal with it. BTW what is a single pitch? most would say that is a full rope length, it used to be around 50m, then it was 60m. As such, yer not talking about a single pitch but a half pitch. But then again what is a half pitch? It used to be 100' but more and more people are climbing on 70 and even 80 meter ropes. Climbers need to learn to think least they're gonna die. Some of those gray haired farts do know their shit - like this spring when I taught a guy how to rappel using a double biner brake. The poor guy had taken a bad fail cause he did not know of such vintage techniques. I felt bad for the guy cause such a simple technique would have prevented his injury. The bottom-line regardless of whether one choses to rappel or lower - %$#@! communicate. |
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Rapping with an ATC vs lowering same as far as safety goes IMHO. However, with an auto locking device, way to safer to get lowered. Oh yeah and down in the creek, the land of the vertical, I've been pumped out of my mind where I'm always getting lowered. |
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Nicelegs, agreed 100% for sport climbing, I'll happily replace worn chains, or lowering biners if it prevents reading about another person decking because their belayer thought they were going to rap. |
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I don't care if you belay me with an ATC, a gri-gri or even a cinch, as long as you know how to use it. |
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Counterpoint: what if single pitch sport is the safest place for new climbers to get live rappel experience under their belt? It is a core skill, and I bet every climber needs to rappel every now and again even if we all lower off 1-pitch sport. They have to learn & practice somewhere; better at the sport crag than halfway up an epic in a storm? |
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Always lower is 100% gym mentality. And I have to be missing something. How can you always lower? You're never supposed to run the rope through the anchors or chains provided for top rope. That action "saws" through the metal. So unless you expect someone to leave draws with lockers at every single pitch anchor, you're always lower approach isn't feasible. |
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A week of lowering off most JTree climbs and you'd need to buy a new rope. |
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Greg Egbert wrote: Sounds like the real debate here is not whether we should rappel or lower, but whether we should communicate or not.If you always lower, there is no need to explicitly communicate your intentions because you are ALWAYS ON BELAY. |
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Mike Caracciolo wrote:Always lower is 100% gym mentality. And I have to be missing something. How can you always lower? You're never supposed to run the rope through the anchors or chains provided for top rope. That action "saws" through the metal. So unless you expect someone to leave draws with lockers at every single pitch anchor, you're always lower approach isn't feasible. |
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I don't have a problem with either as long as you know what you're doing, and your partner does too. There are situations where one is safer or more reasonable than the other. Lowering on single pitch sport seems more practical and safer in most scenarios, so that's become my default for that style. But I always ask my partners what they prefer before we climb, and come to a consensus on what's gonna happen before either of us leaves the ground. |
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Lowering from overhanging climbs, especially very overhanging one or roofs is generally safe than rapping |
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My partners and I like to rap. I would rather come off belay and not worry about what was done on the ground. Pull the rope up, rap, and be done. |
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Sweet thread. Now i will never feel guilty of getting lowered off, even when somebody gives me the stink eye for not rapelling. |
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Why is it so hard to understand that you never go off belay when lowering? There should always be a knot tied into the end of the rope. No communication problems, as you are never taken off belay. This is the safest practice...... |
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Hard as it might be to believe I saw a couple of guys climbing who had to lower off the anchors because they only had one belay device between them. What is the climbing world coming to? |
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I'm cheap...rapping is easier on your rope! |
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Highlander wrote:Why is it so hard to understand that you never go off belay when lowering? There should always be a knot tied into the end of the rope. No communication problems, as you are never taken off belay.Because I still don't see how I get the rope through the chains without untying? :) |
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Patrick Shyvers wrote: Because I still don't see how I get the rope through the chains without untying? :)You feed a bight of rope through the chains or link and clip a into a locker on your belay loop. Or you simply put the rope through the biners or mussy hooks and lower. If you have to untie the rope to feed through the anchor, you are still on belay, your partner never takes you off and there are ways to back yourself up so that you are still clipped into the rope and being belayed. This elementary level stuff, no wonder there are accidents at the crags. |