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Indian Creek anchors

Original Post
Luke Mehall · · Durango, Colorado · Joined May 2009 · Points: 2,508

Not sure what happened to the last thread, but thanks to everyone who submitted info.

We're keeping a running document with all the anchors that need some love at Indian Creek, so if you see something that needs replacing, post it up here or email me (lukemehall@gmail.com) and we'll fix er up.

cheers.
Luke

JeffL · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 65

I just did pente at reservoir wall this weekend. People have been TRing and lowering directly through the chains and they are quite worn. I'm not sure if you would use a bolt cutter to remove the bottom link or what would be easiest.

On a side note, I've been seeing a growing number of people lowering instead of rapping after they clean the anchors. I do my best to explain why this is harmful, especially when there's sand everywhere, but it doesn't seem to stick.

If you see someone lowering or TRing through the chains, please take a moment to educate them on why this isn't okay

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Speaking as someone who has done a fair bit of anchor replacement at the creek as well as other venues, please, feel free to lower off my anchors rather than rap.

In fact, I prefer that you do. It's safer, faster, and I make the bottom link replaceable. Rapping adds so many different elements to the equation, just don't do it. Old biners or even better, mussey hooks are the best, that way you don't even need to untie.

For routes, Cupid's Love Lesson only had webbing and biners in 2005 when I put it up. I bet it's only been done a few times since, so that webbing is probably original and old. If you live in CO, I'll get you some chain to use. I won't make it to the creek again in who knows how long.

Luke Mehall · · Durango, Colorado · Joined May 2009 · Points: 2,508

Thanks for the start! Will add those to our list. Where is this Cupid's route located?

Won't weigh into the rap vs. lower debate, but, I agree that putting quicklinks at the end of the chains is the best option for easy replacement.

RockinGal Moser · · Boulder CO · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 30

Hey,
Thanks for all your work. I propose getting rid of the open cold shut on Skraps, Sparks Wall 5.9 that gets done a lot as a warmup and is the easiest route there. There's a leaver biner on the other anchor, but I don't remember what it is.
Thanks!

Luke Mehall · · Durango, Colorado · Joined May 2009 · Points: 2,508

Right on RocknGal, thanks for the heads up. I think the easier climbs at The Creek get the most neglected, because often the folks who climb those don't necessarily have the skills to replace anchors. I'll add that route to our list!

Anyone else have anything for us?

peace,
Luke

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

I've told Sam F. and in your early thread - Camping Under Influence and MC's Hammer. Also, the unnamed 5.10 hand crack on the far left side of the Cliffs could use a bolt and chains. Wiggins II could use some chains. Thank you for your hard work!

Ryan Huetter · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 395

The anchor on Vegetarian Corner at Sacred Cow is sun baked dynema sling with biners- would be nice with some chain up there.

mtoensing · · AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 705

Sparkling touch... Also sunflower I believe. Maybe thumbilina as well.,,

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
nicelegs wrote: , please, feel free to lower off my anchors rather than rap. In fact, I prefer that you do. It's safer, faster, and I make the bottom link replaceable. Rapping adds so many different variables
Hmmm. Yet we keep hearing about lowering accidents not rapping. So let's see. Anchor, untie, thread, retie. Yeah, totally rocket science. And then the tough communication part: ok self, I'm gonna rappel now. What? I can't hear you. Self! Can you hear me. I said...

Not to mention getting lowered is cutting awful and permanent grooves in the rock on many routes. Worn anchors are reversible, worn rock is not!
Paul Irby · · moab, ut · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 141

For Chrissake does everything have to turn into a pissing match? Someone is offering community service here.
The sunny side of the Resevoir wall has a lot of ghetto anchors.
Thanks for the work.

Highlander · · Ouray, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 256
Greg D wrote: Not to mention getting lowered is cutting awful and permanent grooves in the rock on many routes. Worn anchors are reversible, worn rock is not!
I would argue that these grooves are from mega tope rope sessions. Also these top rope sessions are really hard on the anchors, especially when you have a huge crowd dogging their way up a route that they can not climb. This repetitive hanging on the anchors speeds up the process for wearing out the anchors.
just a theory...
Jeff Scheuerell · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 2,298

Maybe nicelegs can give us his extended list of Creek anchors he has put up and is regularly maintaining so people will know which ones it ok to lower on all others it's not cool.

Thanks to all the replacement work!

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Greg D wrote: Hmmm. Yet we keep hearing about lowering accidents not rapping. So let's see. Anchor, untie, thread, retie.
I don't believe it's accurate. I think overall there are more rappel accidents or something to do with rappel (miscommunication with belayer about rappel/lower intentions) than lowering accidents. The most common scenario of accidents while lowering I could think of is the rope being too short, but then you won't remedy that by rappeling. You really don't need to untie or go off belay when lowering unless the links on the end of the chain are too tiny to fit a bight of the rope. As Nicelegs stated it's very safe and more efficient if there are biners or mussey hooks on the anchors. Maybe Indian Creek is special because of soft rock etc., but in general, saying that lowering is more dangerous than rappeling is disingenuous, IMO.
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Jeff, I don't have to justify myself to you. I'm not alone in this. If you need to rappel in order to justify your fully engorged member, knock yourself out. Just don't act like you're doing it for anything and politely, shut yer damn trap about what others should do.

I honestly do not know a single person who discourages lowering off their anchors, yet the n00bs all rap.

Greg, you're out of your element.

Luke, back on topic. It's been a long time so it might have changed but I remember some pretty tatty anchors on top of Sacred Cow. Same with it's buddy, Twin Cam.

Also, for a project if you care. Sometime around 2004, the route called Life on Critics Choice fell over. It left behind a surprisingly good cupped hands crack. Anchors quickly appeared on top but since the yellow rock was softer than the normal wingate, they almost immediately failed. I remember climbing that route around then, looking at the 1/2" Rawls, pulling them out with only my fingers, and lowering off a 3.5 friend. 6 months later I came back and the cam was still there!! I put in 1/2" hardware store bolts (they aren't as strong but tend to tighten down better in shit rock) and filled the holes with gorilla glue to attempt to slow the hole from sanding out and loosening the bolt. It sounds like the anchor is holding up well though. It's a fairly ugly drippy mess that I'm not proud of. I'd like to put glue ins in one of the sets of old holes and clean it up the best I can. If you run out of stuff to fix, have at it, or I'll do it eventually. I don't expect to get back out there for another couple years. When I do come back, I'll have a backpack full of Mussey Hooks, just for the haters.

Funny true story regarding bolt replacement out there. Super Cat of the desert used to have shitty bolts, leper hangers, lots of webbing, and a nut in the crack, just in case. Next time I was over there, a season later, I brought my kit and climbed it. Once at the anchors, I was surprised to find it all fixed. Chains and 3/8" Powers Bolts. It looked good. Except, throughout all that, the Leper hangers had been reused. I swapped the hangers and it's all good now but it made me laugh.

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
nicelegs wrote: It's been a long time so it might have changed but I remember some pretty tatty anchors on top of Sacred Cow.
IIRC, there are new bolts, but with a nest of tat on them now. Could use chains.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
nicelegs wrote:Greg, you're out of your Element.
That's funny.
BJ Sbarra · · Carbondale, CO · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 671

Luke, the Fuzz at Way Rambo could use some love. The left anchor bolt is a pin, and it's in hollow rock. The chain is also starting to get pretty worn.

Thanks for all your hard work down there!

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
doligo wrote: Maybe Indian Creek is special because of soft rock etc., but in general, saying that lowering is more dangerous than rappeling is disingenuous, IMO.
I don't recall saying that but I can see how you could interpret that. If you do a little searching yourself you may be surprised how many lowering accidents have taken place in recent years compared to how many reppel accidents have taken place. Personally I have participated in two rescues involving lowering accidents, one of them in Indian Creek. I'm not saying one is safer than the other. They both have their merits. And in Indian Creek we are not talking about the benefits of lowering on very steep routes. That is not the case here. But at least when you are repelling you remove the communication error problem altogether.

But as someone has suggested I am out of my element. I guess climbing in southern Utah for 20 years is not enough
Bill Czajkowski · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 20

Scarface Wall, left of Not That Funny is an Unnamed route (#19 in the Bloom Camalot edition) that could use some chains if you're in the area. I think the bolts are fine.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

Moab cops really need to step up out of state profiling, that would save the rock and anchors.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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