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graffiti vandal strikes Yosemite

Tradster · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 0
M Sprague wrote:She probably wasn't old enough to vote in 2008. A certain number of narcissistic dumb-dumbs doesn't negate the worth of studying culture. It takes many types and ways of looking at things to make a healthy, vibrant society, something many social conservatives don't seem to understand. The whole cult of ignorance is pretty weird to me. It is like a twisted version of the romantic ideal of simplicity.
Good point. Most people now seem to equate culture with things like American Idol, the Kardasians, and celebrity gossip. Most youth wouldn't know who Faulkner, Jackson Pollack or Plato were and what their accomplishments to world culture might have been. A sad state of affairs.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
M Sprague wrote:I do agree with that. That is just a really bad practical economic sense. Most people should study a lot of those subjects on their own in conjunction with their formal studies in more practical subjects.
+1
It appears that so many recent high school grads now have the mistaken view that college is merely job training instead of its intended goal: teaching students how to think and learn for themselves. Yes, anything STEM requires the transfer of lots of theoretic, practical, and specific knowledge, but the more important result is being able to learn almost anything else on your own post-college.
Nkane 1 · · East Bay, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 140
Em Cos wrote:So the post that states (basically, can't recall how it was worded exactly) that who cares about her artwork, too busy looking at her nice legs, is deleted. Rightfully so, I think it was pretty crass. ...and the post above that praises her "work", while obviously cropping out her "artwork" such as it is but framing her body; which was implying and prompting the following post; that can stay. Swing and a miss, MP.
I want to thank Em Cos for calling out assholish behavior in this thread and a couple of recent ones.

Used to be, there was lots of casual misogyny and homophobia on the various climbing forums. Nowadays, there still is, but people call it out far more often. The work is appreciated.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
frankstoneline wrote: While I agree most of the cases of sexism we talk about are sexism against women and that this is where many of the social and economic disparities lie in society, that doesnt mean that gender stereotypes and perceived "right" social roles aren't imposed on men, so men certainly can be the victim of sexism.
Yep!
Like when women, uninvited, 'womansplain' me things by offering their wisdom and advice on how to handle my child or on what she is saying? This is most amusing when they are not parents, which is always the first question I ask if offered wisdom: "How do you handle this with your child?"
It might be more appreciated if a "public fit" from my child was anything worse than her tugging on my pant-leg witha grunt and saying "Hep Peeees Dahy" (help please, daddy). I think she is doing OK for an almost-2-year-old.
When I buy diapers and a woman tells me that's not the brand I want and tries to "help me" and tells me to get that other brand. One even persisted in that after I told her that those give Emi a rash.
The other day at a party Emi walked into the middle of a crowd and got surprised by a large number of people and gasped. A friend went to pick her up before I got there. I asked, walking that way "Please let me get that." The woman tells me how great she is with kids and picks her up anyway. Em shrieks and kicks as that friend picks her up.
"You know, you might be good with kids, but I *AM* her dad. She takes 5 minutes to warm up to someone before they can pick her up, and that's IF we are talking to them."

The last thing, and perhaps most common is when they try to tell me what she is saying when I ask her to repeat herself (and they are guessing wrong). This actually happens quite a bit because Em knows about 500 words, and speaks in short sentences, but at 21 months doesn't pronounce them very well. We're just working on pronunciation, it is not that I can't understand her.

Yet it is presumed that because I am a man, I am less capable of understanding my daughter or her needs than a strange woman off the street that doesn't even HAVE kids? Guys don't do this to me, just women. It's probably not intentional sexism. They are just trying to help, which I don't want to discourage, since a society where nobody wants to talk or help would suck... but for someone to say that there is no sexism from females is pretty ignorant of the world as it is.
teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

Casual sexism does not, a priori, make you a sexist, but it is not ok, either. Learn from the mistake, and move on.

(And yes, there is some boys club, casual [hopefully unintended] sexism on display in this thread. That's pretty much beyond dispute. Rather than getting defensive, learn from it and do your part to knock it off.)

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

The talk about torture and sex was uncalled for and should have been deleted. The talk about sexism is also uncalled for and should also be deleted.

This thread isn't about a person who openly vandalized multiple national parks anymore. That is a shame.

So, straw poll and jump to conclusion time. Do you suppose her punishment will be worse than the overweight boy scout rock pushers or less? If worse, does that speak of sexism? If less, is that reverse sexism?

Does anyone know all the lyrics to "Wiggle it" and have a GoPro? I have a park pass and a great idea...

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
nicelegs wrote:The talk about torture and sex was uncalled for and should have been deleted. The talk about sexism is also uncalled for and should also be deleted. This thread isn't about a person who openly vandalized multiple national parks anymore. That is a shame. So, straw poll and jump to conclusion time. Do you suppose her punishment will be less than the overweight boy scout rock pushers or less? If worse, does that speak of sexism? If less, is that reverse sexism? Does anyone know all the lyrics to "Wiggle it" and have a GoPro? I have a park pass and a great idea...
Thanks for putting that image back in my head.

Should her punishment be as much? The boyscouts destroyed a natural formation that you can't put back in its original state. This lady painted on rocks. I'm not defending her in any way, but from what I've seen, and I will admit that I haven't dug too deep, it looks like with some elbow grease these places will be back to normal.The punishment needs to be enough to deter any moron from doing this again, but it seems like 2 different extents of vandalism here.
Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

I don't know what punishment the rock-pushers got, but painting on rock is definitely a lesser sin than completely destroying rock formations, especially formations as unique as were toppled. As has been said, paint can be removed with work. Removing it may mar the rock, especially porous or soft rock, but that's still better.

In the rock-pusher case, I was equally disgusted by the attitude, and saddened by the damage.

In this girl's case, her attitude/choices is the bigger issue (to me) than the damage itself.

As for making it severe to deter others, I will observe that swiftness and certainty of punishment are generally understood to be more important to deterrence than severity. So, NPS, don't let this one malinger. Go get 'em.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

5k per incident, 5 year ban from the parks + community service + a week in the stocks with a donkey hat on

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE
SECTION 594-625c

594. (a) Every person who maliciously commits any of the following
acts with respect to any real or personal property not his or her
own, in cases other than those specified by state law, is guilty of
vandalism:
(1) Defaces with graffiti or other inscribed material.
(2) Damages.
(3) Destroys.
Whenever a person violates this subdivision with respect to real
property, vehicles, signs, fixtures, furnishings, or property
belonging to any public entity, as defined by Section 811.2 of the
Government Code, or the federal government, it shall be a permissive
inference that the person neither owned the property nor had the
permission of the owner to deface, damage, or destroy the property.
(b) (1) If the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is
four hundred dollars ($400) or more, vandalism is punishable by
imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 or in a
county jail not exceeding one year, or by a fine of not more than ten
thousand dollars ($10,000), or if the amount of defacement, damage,
or destruction is ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or more, by a fine
of not more than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), or by both that
fine and imprisonment.
(2) (A) If the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is
less than four hundred dollars ($400), vandalism is punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by a fine of
not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine
and imprisonment.
(B) If the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is less
than four hundred dollars ($400), and the defendant has been
previously convicted of vandalism or affixing graffiti or other
inscribed material under Section 594, 594.3, 594.4, 640.5, 640.6, or
640.7, vandalism is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for
not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than five thousand
dollars ($5,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(c) Upon conviction of any person under this section for acts of
vandalism consisting of defacing property with graffiti or other
inscribed materials, the court shall, when appropriate and feasible,
in addition to any punishment imposed under subdivision (b), order
the defendant to clean up, repair, or replace the damaged property
himself or herself, or order the defendant, and his or her parents or
guardians if the defendant is a minor, to keep the damaged property
or another specified property in the community free of graffiti for
up to one year. Participation of a parent or guardian is not required
under this subdivision if the court deems this participation to be
detrimental to the defendant, or if the parent or guardian is a
single parent who must care for young children. If the court finds
that graffiti cleanup is inappropriate, the court shall consider
other types of community service, where feasible.
(d) If a minor is personally unable to pay a fine levied for acts
prohibited by this section, the parent of that minor shall be liable
for payment of the fine. A court may waive payment of the fine, or
any part thereof, by the parent upon a finding of good cause.
(e) As used in this section, the term "graffiti or other inscribed
material" includes any unauthorized inscription, word, figure, mark,
or design, that is written, marked, etched, scratched, drawn, or
painted on real or personal property.
(f) The court may order any person ordered to perform community
service or graffiti removal pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision
(c) to undergo counseling.
(g) This section shall become operative on January 1, 2002.

-----------------

I don't now if you can put a price/value on the natural landscape that she has defaced, but you can certainly log the price of materials needed to restore the rock faces and the wages of the people doing the restoration. I can't imagine they'd let the vandal do the restoring in this case. These aren't the sides of some building. This is fragile rock that should but restored carefully by experts or at least park rangers who care about preserving the natural rock formations.

I'm not sure if this penal code applies since it's a state thing, and what she did is probably in federal jurisdiction, but I think the penalties are similar. I hope justice is served.

EDIT: I guess the penalty for vandalism in a national park is more like a $500 fine and six months in jail. Hopefully they follow through with at least that and charge her for the restoration materials and labor.

frankstoneline · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30
Jon Zucco wrote:...EDIT: I guess the penalty for vandalism in a national park is more like a $500 fine and six months in jail. Hopefully they follow through with at least that and charge her for the restoration materials and labor.
In the cases linked in one of the articles (too lazy to hunt them down) individuals who scratched their names into walls and the like in national parks faced $15000 and $10000 dollar fines (I think those were the numbers mentioned) for single first offenses. multiply that by 30 and she's looking at a pretty ominous loan for her art-school of hard knocks adventure.
Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

Yeah, I'm having trouble tracking down what the actual law is regarding this. But then, I haven't tried all that hard either. I am hoping the consequences will be steep. The fact that she defaced national monuments with her "art" knowing full well that it was illegal, is not acceptable. Even if she didn't know it was illegal and even if her paintings were any good, it'd still be completely unacceptable. I hope a hefty fine and a little jail time are both in her future.

Ben Mackall · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 1,823

I'm not even going to delve into the depth of the sexism conversation that is present here, but I want each and all of you to dig into your own consience/ experience and really examine whether you think jail time is the right answer for this girl. Have none of you tagged a wall, drank a beer in a public place, indulged in a little (federally illegal) "devil's cabbage" in a national park, dirtbag camped (i.e. squatting) or anything else? How many of these offences are punishable by jail time? Answer: all of them, to a certain extent. How many of them are REALLY punishable by jail? Probably none of them, particularly if you can relate them to your own life experience. How would you have felt if people were all of a sudden taking up pitchforks and calling for your witch hunt? I can guarantee that a vast majority of us would be on the defensive.

I am in NO WAY condoning her behavior. It is deplorable, and she clearly understands on some level that what she was doing wasn't right. Furthermore, her responses on her blog are juvenile and reek of a lifetime of sheltered and/or priveleged upbringing, but jail is a hefty offence to call for. A large fine, community service, etc. etc. is a far more appropriate use of our tax dollars and her time. Speaking from the perspective of someone who has avoided a hefty jail sentence for something that was fairly minor, she's probably terrified. She should be, but jail is an entirely inappropriate measure to take in this kind of situation.

Put down the torches, and try to see things in the context of your own life. She's a stupid kid. Our prisons are waaaaaay too full of stupid kids. It's far too easy to crucify someone online without paying attention to how you would react differently if this was your friend, sister, daughter, girlfriend, etc.

Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

Actually, what your saying makes sense. Oh wait I didn't tag 10+ walls, just the one.

I do honestly get what your saying but this girl is pretty remorseless, and pretty staunch in opinion that it's art not vandalism.

I think 60 to 180 days in a federal prison would be a reasonable punishment.

mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0

Wow. We went from vandalism, to sexism, almost got back to vandalism, now we're talking about empiricalism. Nice. Not sure how "indulging in the Devils cabbage," or drinking a beer in public relates. Oh yeah, what the fuck is Devils cabbage?

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5
mike c wrote:Do all you witch hunters know acrylic paint is water based......
Are you under the impression that water-based equals washable? It doesn't. Acrylic paints are permanent.

Yes, climbing routes and hiking trails and thousands of visitors camping in a small area obviously all have impacts on the natural world. These are all permitted, legal uses. Vandalism is prohibited and illegal.
Tom-onator · · trollfreesociety · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 790
BTW
mediocre wrote:Wow. We went from vandalism, to sexism, almost got back to vandalism, now we're talking about empiricalism. Nice. Not sure how "indulging in the Devils cabbage," or drinking a beer in public relates. Oh yeah, what the fuck is Devils cabbage?
Devil's lettuce
Clifton Santiago · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0
Dallas Branum wrote: Sexism against men doesn't exist (just as reverse racism doesn't exist.) Sexism isn't just prejudice based on gender... it's prejudice based on gender, combined with power. Sexism is systemic, institutional, and far reaching. It's prejudice being directed toward an oppressed or marginalized group (in this case, women.) You can't have sexism against men, because men hold (the majority,) of power in our society, and their gender isn't used to discredit or oppress them (generally.) It very damn well can be, especially if it's coming from a place of internalized sexism. Is ‘Bitch’ an Example of Internalized Sexism?
So true. It's unfortunate that the patriarchal status quo conspired to overpower natural processes and brutally established a tyrannical coda governing Mother Nature. If only the power had flowed naturally from the Goddess to her daughters. It wasn't until the penetration of the phallus, which created evil, that women were forced to protest gently the dominion of men through creative childbirth, and art. Lo, if only there were more allies willing to speak on behalf of the trampled flower, perhaps there would be no more masculine overlords conquering, bloodletting, twirling mustaches, and posting.
Charles Hightower · · Newburgh, IN · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 50

Hopefully her actions won't effect our access to rock.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
B-Mkll wrote: It's far too easy to crucify someone online without paying attention to how you would react differently if this was your friend, sister, daughter, girlfriend, etc.
Same way. But admittedly, I say that from the comfort of knowing that nobody I associate closely with would do such a thing, with the possible exception of my 22 month old who, as it so happens, creates art with about the same level of quality/appeal.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern California
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