Research on tendon strength increase
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Hi all, |
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I think that the Rock Climber's Training Manual, by the Anderson brothers, says it takes up to 6 years or so. I'm not sure whether there are faster times for some people, though. |
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Yeah, that's the kind of figure I've seen - I'm wondering where they get that from, though. Is everyone just repeating what someone else said? Is there research to support this, or is it just something someone made up that's now become accepted wisdom in climber circles? |
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Here's one: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/199… |
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Nice find! Also "the adaptations of tendon properties and muscle morphology to resistance training are slower than those of muscle function", which agrees with what we've been told, though this paper at least suggests that tendons do get stronger within a couple of months. Which makes sense, surely, as it'do have to be hugely disadvantageous for it to happen far slower than muscle strength increases... |
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I don't have literature sources, but will just add my own anecdotal evidence: After becoming comfortable with the marathon distance pain free, I started training for ultradistance trail running races in 2000, and it took about 6 years for my achilles tendon, and peroneal tendon to "adjust" and become problem free. I was focussed on the slower, steeper, courses and it was the really steep hill work, and steep inclined treadmill work, that was stressing these tendons. |
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Stephen Minchin wrote:Nice find! Also "the adaptations of tendon properties and muscle morphology to resistance training are slower than those of muscle function", which agrees with what we've been toldWhoa ... Read the whole abstract carefully. "Muscle morphology" refers to Cross-Sectional Area of muscle. This is what lots of people call "HYPertrophy". So the quoted conclusion means really: Muscle HYPertrophy and Tendon stiffness increase with training time at about the same rate. Which is not what the old climbing lore (ever-repeated) says. isometric -- anyway the article is about isometric training. Which has long been known not to be very effective for muscular HYPertrophy. So I guess in addition to confirming that, this article is also saying isometric is not so good for tendon growth either. I guess that's why the majority of modern English-language climbing-training books emphasize dynamic methods for training finger-muscle HYPertrophy. also ... Climbers need to be careful to distinguish between "normal" tendons: one at each end of each voluntary muscle, to connect the muscle to bones and joints. Versus other tendon-like connectors like say finger pulleys and "climbers elbow" tandons. And be cautious about applying findings about "normal" tendons to the other kind. |
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What makes the two type of tendons different? |
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I would suggest considering doing your own searches in Pubmed or Google Scholar to find what you're looking for. The ability to interpret the material properly is a whole other ballgame, though. SteveMarshall wrote:What makes the two type of tendons different? why is a finger pulley different in it's strength adaptation than any other tendon?Finger pulleys aren't tendons. They are annular ligaments. Also, I am confused by what kenr said regarding "climber's elbow tendons" being somehow not normal tendons.... they are. That said, tendon morphologies and function vary widely depending on the muscle they are attached to. Tendon "performance" isn't uniform and their ability to withstand tensile and shear stresses aren't all the same. So studying one doesn't imply you understand all others. kenr wrote:isometric -- anyway the article is about isometric training. Which has long been known not to be very effective for muscular HYPertrophy. So I guess in addition to confirming that, this article is also saying isometric is not so good for tendon growth either.First, (off topic) but isometric contractions have been shown to induce hypertrophy. One study does not provide a conclusion on the entire scope of isometric exercise (they only used 70% of max, for instance). Also cross-sectional area of muscle and tendon isn't necessarily indicative of increases in function (which the study did support). |
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Thank you for this, Aerili - awesome to hear more from someone who I'm confident knows what they're talking about. I was also interested in your point that cross-sectional area of muscle and tendon isn't necessarily indicative of increases in function, as I'd thought that for muscle at least that was directly correlated. Unfortunately I'm both skinny and weak, but oh well... |
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Thanks so much Aerili, for taking the time to carefully communicate all this good stuff you know about tendons and muscles. Aerili wrote:I am confused by what kenr said regarding "climber's elbow tendons" being somehow not normal tendons.... they are.I don't know as much as you, so I was just wrong. I made an inference from something I had heard about climber / golfer's elbow injuries + rehab. But some inferences are wrong (and why this one was wrong would make a separate discussion topic). Ken |
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Stephen Minchin wrote:I was also interested in your point that cross-sectional area of muscle and tendon isn't necessarily indicative of increases in function, as I'd thought that for muscle at least that was directly correlated. Unfortunately I'm both skinny and weak, but oh well...Muscle CSA is correlated with force output. You are not wrong. But it is not 1:1. There are other factors, like neural drive and organization, which contribute a large percentage to a muscle's ability to generate force. As for tendons, they can become stiffer without increases in CSA. Thus, function changes without muscle or tendon hypertrophy. |
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Aerili wrote: Muscle CSA is correlated with force output. You are not wrong. But it is not 1:1. There are other factors, like neural drive and organization, which contribute a large percentage to a muscle's ability to generate force. ...i call this 'freak factor', which of all the anomalies i have, unfortunately this isn't one of them :( |