moderate ice tools??

well wanted to get the opinions here
thinking of doing a petzl quark hammer and petzl sumtec adze 59 cm. for technical mountaineering and mellow ice climbing. i only plan on climbs as hard as wi3. mainly mount baker north ridge. pinnacle gulley in New Hampshire and if i go to Ouray for a weekend just picking up a second quark. any experience suing this setup or similar?

Get two Quarks off the gate, get an adze if you really really need it.

Get Quarks. I have both and while I really like the Sum'Tec it doesn't climb water ice very well. The Quark can be stripped down to function almost identical to the Sum'Tec while remaining more capable. The only advantages of the Sum'Tec is length (if you need a traditional piolet) and cost.

I do like the Sum'Tec though, it is my favorite traditional ax. It is a bit heavy but much more functional than the standard Raven or Summit.

This is coming from someone who has 6 pairs of ice tools and 20 years on ice. I really like all my leash less tools and even do alpine routes with them, even if they don't plunge well.
But on the all purpose tool I really like the Petzl Azeterex. swings well on water ice, very light on alpine routes. I think the pick makes a big difference and even if this tool is lighter then the Quark it still sticks the water ice really well.

Grivel Matrix lightsssssssssssssssssssssss

with horns

geoff georges wrote: Petzl Azeterex

I've had my eye on the DMM Fly for awhile, they look comparable to this thing. Basic straight shaft with a slight curve for bulges.

Adam Burch wrote:Grivel Matrix lightsssssssssssssssssssssss with horns

You can find these super cheap right now. Just gotta find the hookup on the pinky-rest somewhere. Was thinking about it, but just got the techs for the new season!

I quite like the Camp Alpax Special.

I used the BD Venoms for a while, but ultimately gave up on them because they didn't have enough heft for my taste on harder ice.

The Alpax Special has a flip-out hand rest that makes them useful for leashless technique on steeper ground, but can be used as traditional ice axes on easy slopes.

http://www.backcountrygear.com/alpax-special-hammer-axe.html?gclid=CIfK977twcECFUKCMgodknwAGA#.VEh4_fmoqUo

mountaingear.com/webstore//…

I've used that exact setup before, and a slight variation on Pinnacle even, so I figured I'd chime in.

I think if you go with that plan, you'll be happy. The Sum'Tec is a great axe for general mountaineering, so if that's your slant, you're good to go.

Unlike Ray, I find the Sum'Tec climbs water ice very well. I think it's in the same class as the Quark or Viper, except for two obvious things. 1. The grip isn't as nice as a dedicated one. Hang on it in a store and you can easily make up you mind for yourself. 2. The 59cm length is a bit more awkward to deal with. This can suck for featured / hard ice.

Neither of these bother me at all. The Sum'Tecs will climb WI3 and WI4 no problem. And it's a hell of a lot better to plunge than anything mentioned above (haven't used the CAMP Alpax special and I'm curious how they plunge with that grip when the pinky rest is stowed, but I have used the rest)

mtnmandan wrote:I've used that exact setup before, and a slight variation on Pinnacle even, so I figured I'd chime in. I think if you go with that plan, you'll be happy. The Sum'Tec is a great axe for general mountaineering, so if that's your slant, you're good to go. Unlike Ray, I find the Sum'Tec climbs water ice very well. I think it's in the same class as the Quark or Viper, except for two obvious things. 1. The grip isn't as nice as a dedicated one. Hang on it in a store and you can easily make up you mind for yourself. 2. The 59cm length is a bit more awkward to deal with. This can suck for featured / hard ice. Neither of these bother me at all. The Sum'Tecs will climb WI3 and WI4 no problem. And it's a hell of a lot better to plunge than anything mentioned above (haven't used the CAMP Alpax special and I'm curious how they plunge with that grip when the pinky rest is stowed, but I have used the rest)

Sum'Tecs have almost identical geometry to the Matrix lights, but the Grivel tools climb ice better, and they're T rated if that matters to you - better steel as well. Little more weight in the head, so they swing with less effort. Sum'tecs will climb the same terrain, but my two partners that use them say it just takes more force to do the same job at my MLs.

Sweet setup is a hammer/adze. Horn on the hammer, slider on the adze. You can plunge the adze all day if you need to, just move the slider up. That is one thing the sum'tecs have over - cooler sliders, but that's the only thing in my opinion. Steve House talks about a similar setup with similar and older grivel tools below.

youtu.be/oIkmYiwbZWg?t=1m12s

I used these tools on the liberty ridge and north side of hood - perfect for that kind of climbing

Yep, I've used the Matrix Lights. They're a great choice too (and with T-rated picks!) I haven't noticed much difference between the two in terms of ice climbing though. I find the sum'tec's head is nicer to hold and pound in pickets, and the hammer is a bit more functional, but this is all nit-picking. I think the options everyone above has mentioned will do the job well.

I'm using a used set of BD Cobras I picked up from Ouray Mountain Sports.

I have the ability to switch back and forth between the Android leashes or the spinner leashes as needed. Good plunging for the snow routes, and I have two hammers and an adze for various conditions.

That being said, they're not as good as the leashless ones for harder ice, but they were a good deal at $275 and the money went to support the Ouray Ice Park. :-)

I love grivel tools. The picks are awesome and the head weight is nice.

I've never done Pinnacle with a mountain axe, but I have done Odells with one. I kinda prefer two technical tools for anything steeper than Odells.

I'd definitely take a look at grivel tools though, there are some great deals since they retooled the whole line, and imo, the quantum tech has the best swing/pick combo of any tool.

Not what you're asking, but the most versatile setup is a pair of modular ice tools (like Quarks, Cobras, or the Grivel offering) and then a 57 to 60ish piolet with a bent head like a BD Venom or the spendy Grivel Air Tech Evo. This trio is gonna get you up pretty much everything from snow slogs to hard water ice.

Piolets are totally unfashionable and totally don't rip out of your hand or tear your rotator cuff when you have to actually self-arrest on a snow slope.

mtnmandan wrote:Yep, I've used the Matrix Lights. They're a great choice too (and with T-rated picks!) I haven't noticed much difference between the two in terms of ice climbing though. I find the sum'tec's head is nicer to hold and pound in pickets, and the hammer is a bit more functional, but this is all nit-picking. I think the options everyone above has mentioned will do the job well.

Good points on comfort/hammer, but our groups experience is the grivels just swing and set with less effort. Perhaps you've got that secret magic ;)

Jaredj, cracking up - ripping your shoulder out of socket is part of the charm! I got a smokin deal on a 50cm grivel evo airtech banana biscuit, or whatever the name is - that is indeed, a fine piolet. Wish I had opportunity to use it more, but I'll probably never have to buy an axe again with that sweet baby.

mountainproject.com/v/fs-bo…

quarks...