Starting Campus Training

Hi everyone.

I've been bouldering at a local gym for a couple of months now, about three times a week and 90 minutes each time, and I would like to start campus training in December. I don't know how accurate my gym's grades are, but I climb V2/V3 pretty regularly and am working on a V4. (Bear with me.)

Obviously, a big part of starting campus training is that I'd like to be able to climb better. However, the other nontrivial component is that I really miss training. I used to lift several times per week but, since moving to my current location in August, have switched to climbing alone (I don't really want to pay two gym memberships). Climbing is fun no doubt, but I miss the grind-y, disciplined spirit of lifting, and campus training is appealing for having some of that spirit.

As I understand it, common advice is for beginners to focus on pure climbing and leave campus training for a year or two down the road. In terms of tendons, stress, and the gradual process of adjusting to climbing, I understand this logic. However, I think I might have a better base for finger and elbow strength/endurance than most beginning climbers. Pull-ups have been a part of my routine for years, and when I stopped over the summer I was doing 3 sets of 8 with 60lb. hanging on a dip belt (I weigh 105 lb) and had been in that range for a few months. When I started climbing I could do a one-arm pull-up, a set of 30 pull-ups, etc. This sounds like boring internet bragging, but I really would like to know if this means I can start campus training earlier. It does seem like evidence that my tendons are more used to stress than those of the average beginning climber.

For what it's worth I worked up the pull-up progression really slowly, over the course of several years, and have never had any finger or elbow issues.

Thanks much!

If you are looking to add training to your regimen I would not start with campus training. It sounds like you have been a part of a training program before, so you know how important it is to follow a proper progression of exercises. Campusing is a great exercise, but you don't want to skip the steps that come before.

I would recommend starting you training by exploring different bouldering based workouts like: 4x4s, intervals, circuits, timed volume challenges, doubles, triples, etc. After a few months of that, you will be feeling stronger for sure. Then would be a good time to think about adding some supplemental hang boarding, core exercises and probably some pulling workouts. The key word being "supplemental", don't let these exercises take over your session. Climbing is always more important and should make up the bulk of your session.

After a few months of that, you could try out some campusing and see how your fingers and elbows react.

If you can do 1 arm pull-ups and you are still climbing under V8+, body strength is not your issue. What you need is technique and finger strength. There is no short cut to either of these things. Working with a coach/trainer can help, but it really just takes a lot of time. Unless you are 10yrs old in which case i'd say you are very strong and articulate for your age, Ashima better watch out!

grothendieck wrote:but I really would like to know if this means I can start campus training earlier. It does seem like evidence that my tendons are more used to stress than the average beginning climber.

The concern with campus training too early is 2-fold, first in the fingers, which pull-ups have done very little to strengthen, and secondly in the fairly vigorous dynamic loading of the elbows and shoulders. Good form is critical to avoid damaging these muscles, and it's possible that your pull-up history may have helped strengthen these areas, but it seems the stresses applied in campus workouts are very different from those applied in a pull up routine.

That said, the internet can't tell you if you'll get hurt, just speculate. give it a shot and be wary of problem joints (fingers, elbows, shoulders) and stop if something starts to nag.

You sound like a perfect candidate for the Anderson's training regimen. Take a look at their book ( rockclimberstrainingmanual.…). They have a great quick reference for starting training and then you can go back an read all the pertinent details.

If you really enjoy training then you will probably enjoy their approach and methodology.

Climbing v3 and you can do 1 arm pullups!!!! That sounds like you're a great candidate for technique improvement. To put it in perspective most people I know who can do a 1 arm, climb v10 and above. Technique and schema's are invaluable.

It doesnt matter how strong you are if your body doesnt understand the move you're trying to do. Unfortunately, it takes countless reps and years to hone your skills. I am talking about be able to do every move statically or dynamically when needed. Have you dyno'ed off a heel hook yet? I am talking about being able to send reasonable grades in all styles. Vertical, slab, 45, and cave.

Also, the training you've done previously has most likely not strengthened the tendons in your hands what-so-ever. Good news is....your previous training has probably created a lot of shoulder "power" for you to work with....which is one of the goals of campus training anyway. Now you just need to work on building finger "power". I would suggest just doing big dynamic deadpoints and dynos on the bouldering wall instead of messing with the campus rungs.

All in all, actual climbing is going to be your biggest gainer at this stage. You're obviously lacking basic movement patterns or you would be climber v5 easily.

It's kind of early, but if you re really serious about making quick gains I would consider changing your physique"Leaning out-toning down". Bodyfat is the enemy.

Thanks everyone for the quick replies.

@Trycycle: I like the idea of introducing more training into my regular bouldering. 4x4s in particular sound like something I'd like. I'll start doing those this week. I already do some supplemental work - my general cycle is to climb one day, do a brief 20-30 minute workout the next, and then rest one day - consisting of core work and some stuff for opposing muscles. Like yesterday I did some front levers and incline fingertip pushups, today's my rest day, and tomorrow I get to climb again. And no, I'm 22 rather than 10, but I wish I'd known about bouldering when I was 10...

@Frankstoneline: In addition to normal pullups I used to do several variations, like pullups with one normal hand and the other hand limited to one or two fingers, or pullups where I'd let go at the top of the movement and throw myself up. Basically, there was a fairly long period where a pullup bar was my only real equipment, so I got to know it very well. I'll make sure to pay attention to my joints once I start campus training though.

@Ben Ricketts: Is there any way to learn about that program without buying the book? I'm not opposed to paying for it in principle, but I'd like to know that it's worth purchasing beforehand.

@Josh Villenueve: Yeah, I'll readily admit that my technique is poor. Most of my V3 climbs have been roof problems or overhangs that I could just campus. The V4 I'm projecting is the same way. I try to remedy this by climbing with a partner whose style is almost exactly opposite mine. He is much better at problems that stress balance and footwork and tends to work on those problems more (and, conversely, he can't really campus). I don't like those problems, but they'll probably help more in the long run. I just need to be more disciplined about trying them (more than once). As far as "leaning out-toning down" I'm not sure how much I can do there. I'm 100-105 lb. at 5'2" (a lanky 5'2" - my wingspan is 5'9" and I've never owned a long-sleeve shirt that fits) and I run a couple of times per week, so I think climbing technique is the main thing to address right now.

So, to summarize, I'm planning on introducing more of a training element into my bouldering as Trycycle outlined, and I'll put off campus training until at least January. Thanks again!

If - like me - you've been a gym rat training monkey for years - I think you will enjoy the book. In theory there's nothing new if you are very well read in strength training but the Anderson's put together a "program" aspect that's well thought out and designed "for climbing" and not for more overall strength work. It's worth the money I think.

Speaking as someone with the opposite problem (decent technique and little strength) I've learned that I gain a lot more from working on my weaknesses than working on my strengths. Take the ego hit, stop doing what you're good at, and spend a bunch of time working on what you suck at.

josh villeneuve wrote:Climbing v3 and you can do 1 arm pullups!!!! That sounds like you're a great candidate for technique improvement. To put it in perspective most people I know who can do a 1 arm, climb v10 and above.

There are tons of people climbing very hard(>V10) who CANT do a 1-arm. As everyone has allready mentioned, technique will actually put that strength to good use. [citation needed]

If you start to focus on campus training now, you might get more contact strength. Your ability to lock-off on crimps will improve, but the majority of boulder problems feature a variety of moves with different holds and body positions. examples: compression, slopers, body tension, sidepulls, gastons, these will still be just as hard no matter how much campus boarding you do.

Campusing makes you better at only one aspect of climbing, and causes alot of injuries along the way. You will get stronger, and climb harder, if you just do more climbing and encounter a wider variety of moves (esp. outside). If you're going to train something to try and boulder harder, it should probably be core and footwork, and then you won't need to pull so hard. (careful you might break the wall).

most of the hardest moves out there require the use of your feet to stay on, so crazy pull strength is not as applicable as other factors

also: another good book to check out, Dave Mcleod's 9 out of 10 climbers make the same mistakes. amazon.com/Out-Climbers-Mak…

Campus with feet is a good way to start out. Let's you get started safely - like weight training "progressive resistance" is the safest way. Then go to the easiest campus methods (just pull and reach, no negative or "catch" - then next - and the next more difficult technique etc - take your time with it.

I would suggest a period of hang board work for a while first before considering campusing.

Chris Rice wrote:"progressive resistance" is the safest way.

+1

I started my campusing at an age well beyond what anyone recommends, and while at a climbing difficulty way below what anyone recommends for doing campus training.

By being very careful to use measurable (keeping written records) incremental increases in my moves (I love big moves), and
normally doing it only every 3rd or 4th day ...
I've never had any finger injuries.
And I've achieved definite gains in my roped climbing difficulty both indoors and outdoors.

Although I sometimes launch big campus moves from a full-crimp grip, I try never to catch a move on a crimp, only with open grip (usually 4-finger open). Though sometimes I latch a move open grip, then "roll up" into a full crimp for launching the next move (or just for matching the other hand).

problem is that many campus boards at many gyms do not enable "cheating" using feet to help support -- or even touching a foot to the wall just to stabilize body position (unlike for most dynamic moves out on real rock).

So likely it's worth looking around at several gyms -- or build your own campus board.

Ken

grothendieck wrote:Hi everyone. I've been bouldering at a local gym for a couple of months now, about three times a week and 90 minutes each time, and I would like to start campus training in December. I don't know how accurate my gym's grades are, but I climb V2/V3 pretty regularly and am working on a V4. (Bear with me.) Obviously, a big part of starting campus training is that I'd like to be able to climb better. However, the other nontrivial component is that I really miss training. I used to lift several times per week but, since moving to my current location in August, have switched to climbing alone (I don't really want to pay two gym memberships). Climbing is fun no doubt, but I miss the grind-y, disciplined spirit of lifting, and campus training is appealing for having some of that spirit. As I understand it, common advice is for beginners to focus on pure climbing and leave campus training for a year or two down the road. In terms of tendons, stress, and the gradual process of adjusting to climbing, I understand this logic. However, I think I might have a better base for finger and elbow strength/endurance than most beginning climbers. Pull-ups have been a part of my routine for years, and when I stopped over the summer I was doing 3 sets of 8 with 60lb. hanging on a dip belt (I weigh 105 lb) and had been in that range for a few months. When I started climbing I could do a one-arm pull-up, a set of 30 pull-ups, etc. This sounds like boring internet bragging, but I really would like to know if this means I can start campus training earlier. It does seem like evidence that my tendons are more used to stress than those of the average beginning climber. For what it's worth I worked up the pull-up progression really slowly, over the course of several years, and have never had any finger or elbow issues. Thanks much!

It should bother you that guys and girls that can't do nearly as many pull-ups are hiking V5-V6 and harder...

grothendieck,

For more information on their system, check out this . I think this is an early precursor to their book. I am lazy by nature and needed a more organized presentation than in the article. I like their book which inlcudes campus training though I have not made it through that cycle yet.

On a side note, I am very jealous of your strength to weight ratio. I agree with most people that campusing does not sound like your weakness and therefore your training time could be more beneficial if you spend it elsewhere. But I bet you will be damn good at it.

A lot of good responses here. I will throw another vote in for waiting until your fingers have caught up to your stoke. You ought to be spending the first 1 - 2 years just flat out climbing a lot. Technique and strength will naturally follow that experience.

Then start to wade into the world of the hang board.

Then, once your fingers are nice and primed, then you toy around with campus board sessions. Just like complex lifts like deadlifts, squats, etc. there is good campusing form and there is bad campusing form.

Your lifting experience doesn't lead me to believe that your finger tendons have had enough of the specific targeted training it takes to strengthen them to where they need to be to handle a beneficial campus board routine. As you know, they take a lot longer to strengthen than muscle does. If you do go straight into campusing, take the same careful approach that you did to weighted pull ups. Go slow and pay attention. Retreat at the first sign of pain. You really don't want to blow a pulley, or throw out a shoulder, or develop climber's elbow. Too much too soon is a very bad thing in this sport. Ask me how I know.

P.S. the Anderson book is definitely worth owning if you're serious about training for climbing.

grothendieck wrote: Climbing is fun no doubt, but I miss the grind-y, disciplined spirit of lifting, and campus training is appealing for having some of that spirit.

Do the rock climbing version of lifting and start hangboarding instead! Go grab some weights, decided on a few specific grip positions, get out your graph paper and start charting and grinding away.

If slow, progressive, (and quantifiable) overload is what you want, hangboarding will be the most beneficial way to scratch that itch safely.

Jon Zucco wrote:A lot of good responses here. I will throw another vote in for waiting until your fingers have caught up to your stoke. You ought to be spending the first 1 - 2 years just flat out climbing a lot. Technique and strength will naturally follow that experience. Then start to wade into the world of the hang board. Then, once your fingers are nice and primed, then you toy around with campus board sessions. Just like complex lifts like deadlifts, squats, etc. there is good campusing form and there is bad campusing form. Your lifting experience doesn't lead me to believe that your finger tendons have had enough of the specific targeted training it takes to strengthen them to where they need to be to handle a beneficial campus board routine. As you know, they take a lot longer to strengthen than muscle does. If you do go straight into campusing, take the same careful approach that you did to weighted pull ups. Go slow and pay attention. Retreat at the first sign of pain. You really don't want to blow a pulley, or throw out a shoulder, or develop climber's elbow. Too much too soon is a very bad thing in this sport. Ask me how I know. P.S. the Anderson book is definitely worth owning if you're serious about training for climbing.

Agreed that the Anderson book is worth owning if you're interested in systematic training. But disagree that training should be delayed for beginners, and think this is one of the more 'unconventional' takeaways of the Anderson book. As long as you're careful and thoughtful about training so as to avoid injury, there's no reason, per se, that training should be delayed until you're climbing 5.12… or have been at it for 2 years… or can boulder V6… etc.

If you're psyched on training, start training! I think a valid reason to delay training for many beginners is that it would totally suck the psyche away -- gains are realized quickly enough by just climbing when you're a beginner that you don't feel the need to focus on strengthening your fingers with isolated exercises.

That said, 'training' doesn't necessarily mean using non-climbing exercises instead of climbing 100% of the time. For example, as a beginner you may want to focus on limit bouldering (or even just hard bouldering instead of limit bouldering) to build power, as opposed to campus board training. However, I think one apparatus that's probably better to start using sooner rather than later is the hangboard, for strength training. This post isn't the right time to go into all the ins and outs of hangboarding, but again, if you read the Anderson bros.' advice and really take it to heart (i.e., remove much more weight than you think you need to, be conservative about adding weight), I think you're probably setting yourself up very well for performance gains in the future, which is always when they're harder to come by =)

Last point, I don't think training should be thought of in opposition to technique/skill development. It's great to focus on technique early on, and as mentioned by many, it's probably going to get you the farthest, fastest. But it's possible (fundamental, even) to incorporate technique development into a broader training regimen that also includes fitness-oriented exercises. You should absolutely focus on improving your technique right now, but that doesn't mean you should ignore climbing-specific fitness. I agree with a previous poster that it's better to focus on weaknesses than strengths, but I'd bet that your current fitness that lets you campus through relatively moderate moves on what I'm guessing is steep, juggy terrain, which is now a strength of yours, will quickly become a weakness as your technique naturally improves and you beginning working on problems that require more finger strength that you can't just do pull ups through.

Hoo -- that was more than I intended to write! Anyway, I think the most important point is to do what makes you psyched, and if that happens to be systematic training, just make sure you don't overdo it!

I am whacked on pain killers right now. "What" you ask "does that have to do with the subject of this thread?" Simple. I am in pain because I had a deep cortisone injection in my shoulder earlier today. Said shoulder become a nagging long term injury after doing my first hard-core campus board cycle. I am in my 40's, but have been climbing for a long fucking time and training VERY consistently for the last 7 years. I am NOT saying that campusing will always injure you. I am saying that it puts a much higher level of stress on your body's joints than most other types of training. Be careful. Injuries suck!

+1 vote for the Anderson book.

Muscles get strong much faster than tendons and ligaments... on the order of (up to 6) years faster. You will rapidly outpace your connective tissues if you jump directly into hardcore training.

After two serious finger injuries as I push 5.12 grades, I bought the Anderson book and started scheduled training. My goal is to climb harder and also avoid injuries through a structured, progressive approach.

Fabulous book and I couldn't recommend it more for anyone serious about training.