New (big!) gym opening in Golden - Earthtreks

nicelegs wrote: I now understand your desire to defend shitty business.

Not defending, educating. It doesn't seem like you understand business. Don't they have a library near that soapbox?

Bill Kirby wrote: Not defending, educating. It doesn't seem like you understand business. Don't they have a library near that soapbox?

ET is operating like it's a monopoly, just like Comcast, and that absolutely is bad business. While ET may have a regional monopoly back east, that won't be the case once the Denver Movement opens up. All the ill will they've built up will come back to bite them. FWIW, there are climbing gyms in the front range w/ much lower or no initiation fees.

nicelegs wrote:A short roof, a bump, or a slight overhang is a far cry from angles like Movement and R&j I have. It's not even close to the same thing.

Absolutely agree here. Yes, ET does has steep terrain, but rarely consistently steep terrain. For the most part, the climbing is either vertical or horizontal. This, combined with the awkward, inconsistent setting style (don't get me started on that...) makes it very difficult to use the ET lead walls to build power endurance for sport climbing (which is generally what I look for if I'm climbing on a rope in the gym). As reboot alluded to, compare this to the lead walls at Movement or R&J; both of those offer gyms a long lead wall at a consistent, moderately overhanging angle. They use those walls to set great steady pumpers, perfect for power endurance.

After an entire winter of hoping things would get better at ET, route setting-wise I'm going back to Movement. The route setting just sucks, especially Cryptochild routes, generally contorted and stupid I think they can overcome the wall geometry if they just set better routes.

Saying 'it's just business' doesn't change the fact that THIS business has shown itself to be very unwilling to work with climbers.

I had a recurring EFT membership with them (one for me and my significant other). I placed it on hold for a month. At the time, I thought I had placed it on an indefinite hold. So when I saw a $120 charge on my bank account I called and spoke to their membership coordinator.

Now, I should state up front that this was completely due to MY mistake. I didn't carefully read the terms on their web site when I placed the membership on hold. That said, I explained to their coordinator that I hadn't been to the gym in over a month, and was now out $120 for a month of service I wouldn't be able to use.

I understood (as a business) that they where unwilling to refund the money, but I asked it they could credit my account for that month of membership, so that I could use it when I was actually able to go to the gym (you know, the one where I was paying for the membership). That was also refused. They where completely unwilling to make any kind of accommodation for me.

Again, the business was well within their rights in how they handled this, and I'm not implying that I'm in any way entitled to special treatment. I was still kind of surprised at what amounts to getting a big f-you from them though. Most of the other gyms in the area are much more willing to accommodate reasonable requests and seem like the wanted their customers to be happy. This also reflects a very short sighted business practice, since they have gained the cost of two monthly memberships from us, and lost any additional money we ever would have spent there.

Yeah, the lead routes at Earth treks are designed to be fun to climb, not designed to be useful as training routes. This is generally a problem with all gyms, not much you can do though, because most people don't train, so they have to cater to the non-training customers.

I'm a member at ET, and very glad that movement in Denver will open soon. Earth Treks is just way too crowded on week nights. For diversity, I truly hope the setting style at Movement is very different. I'll probably get a membership at both gyms :)

I think it is wrong to hate the gyms for having a start up fee (come on people, $70 is nothing...). You get what you pay for people. The more a gym makes, the better equipment and brand new holds they'll have. More money for a gym means more money for their employees (which attracts better employees, not the minimum wage fast food crowd).

Also, following the earlier discussion about the first bolt being too low, I'd say just skip first bolt when you lead climb if you don't like it (that's what I do...). I don't condone openly disobeying gym rules, but if you are climbing in control and want to make it easier (and safer) for your belayer and enable softer catches, just reach high to that second bolt right away!

ditto Drew. I do enjoy climbing those wandering routes, but yeah, at 7pm on a Thursday night, they are a PITA. For those that don't live in Golden and don't have the option of climbing any time, it sure is annoying. Assuming Movement Denver is set like movement boulder, I'll do lead power-endurance training there and just have fun at ET ;)

I have a sneaking suspicion Movement-Denver is going to be insanely crowded.

I don't like the principle behind initiation and holdover fees. Becoming a member should be both a legal and logistical convenience for them and should also serve as a formal sign of loyalty and recognition of each other's value and ability to help one another. The current policy, as others have pointed out, is a money making and driven policy rather than a community driven policy. That sort of policy reduces me from a fellow climbing enthusiast sharing something in common with a known, accommodating active owner to a minuscule quantification on an Excel chart in front of a guide-turned-businessman hundreds of miles away.

While that^ statement might engender a certain Abbey-ian naivety with respect to modern business and profit-making ventures, it is a personal opinion and sense of self-devaluation that I choose not to support within this particular activity.

Ryan Marsters wrote:I have a sneaking suspicion Movement-Denver is going to be insanely crowded.

You got that right.

And I hate to keep harping on this but there won't be auto-belays. Same as ET. I am not a social person and love being able to go to RNJ to put my earbuds in and run laps. No belaying - just some quick training.

All this shit about "auto-belays don't really fall in line with our climbing philosophy" is just another way to say "we don't want to invest in them or deal with the responsibility"

I was excited about Movement until I realized there were no auto-belays and the crowds will be terrible...

For memberships, Movement charges $75 to sign up and $68/month. And if paying for a year, they charge about $66/month. You can freeze it for $8 /month. This all sounds very similar to ET, so can someone explain the problem with ET pricing policies? (Or does Movement allow unlimited freezing, which would be nice but would be surprising).

RJ is less expensive than either, but quite a bit smaller. So I don't see any problems when comparing ET and Movement prices to RJ. Vail charges more than A-Basin. Both are great, but I wouldn't expect them to cost the same...

R&J offers off-hours pricing, which is nice. I wish I could convince the folks at Earth Treks that I should pay less at times when I can get more climbing done...

Ya'll just keep climbing that plastic!!!

doug rouse wrote:Ya'll just keep climbing that plastic!!!

Funny Doug, I haven't been to a climbing wall since probably April. I don't know if I'll even go this winter. I don't think I'd even care except MP throws up a red box on the edge of my screen every time someone replies.

Jim Turner wrote:For memberships, Movement charges $75 to sign up and $68/month. And if paying for a year, they charge about $66/month. You can freeze it for $8 /month. This all sounds very similar to ET, so can someone explain the problem with ET pricing policies? (Or does Movement allow unlimited freezing, which would be nice but would be surprising). RJ is less expensive than either, but quite a bit smaller. So I don't see any problems when comparing ET and Movement prices to RJ. Vail charges more than A-Basin. Both are great, but I wouldn't expect them to cost the same...

The having of the fees for initiation and the needings for constant membership and a freezing of the account, or a starting up fee again is complete bullshit! I rather be going to the Denver Bouldering Club so as not to take it in the rear in order for to do the climbings on the climbing rocks of plastic of many odd shape!