Single Line Rap & Tag Line
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Hi All, |
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I rap on both stands (9.7mm standard and 7mm static tag) just like any other rap. I always arrange the ropes so I pull the fatter rope. Biggest issue is the 7mm line wanting to pull through the anchor while rapping due to the increased friction of the fatter rope through the rap device. This is easily mitigated by rapping slow and paying a little attention. |
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If you do plan to use a biner block and single strand rap, make sure your hitched biner CANNOT fit through your anchor biner. I have seen/heard of many canyoneers that have died that way. |
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Use a biner block ("Reepschnur") if you plan on rapping with a tag line. Here is a website that describes it, as well as a fatality from not using it. |
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I had almost the exact same set up for rapping off Petit this summer--9.8 dynamic cord and 7 mm static tag line, both 60 meters. We used an edk and a biner block. Something went wrong with the biner clock causing the static tag to twist like crazy. The tagline kinked so bad that we couldn't pull the rope. We had to re-ascend the rope and get it untangled. Never again will I mess with a biner block. I saw a guy attempt a biner block this weekend and he ended up securing his rope to the anchor. We had to fix it so he could pull his rope. Both of these instances could be user error. Either way, I'm done with the biner block. |
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Rap on both strands. There is no advantage to rapping on only one, only an increase in risk. I dont use a biner to block the anchor, I just rap on both strands like they are twin ropes. I have never had problems with the rope moving through the anchor, you just need to be careful and aware. |
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Agreed..you carried 2 lines..rap on 2 lines...I have forever used a figure 8 to join the ropes together. |
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+1 for rapping on both lines. As others have said, just watch the rope movement if the thinner line ends up through the rap rings. The advantage of the Reepschnur is that it allows you to use a super-thin (6mm or smaller) pulldown cord, which ends up being a pain to pulldown on if you're doing full rope length raps. Better to just use a 7mm or larger diameter line and rap on both lines. john strand wrote:I have forever used a figure 8 to join the ropes together.Be very clear when you recommend using a figure-8 to join two ropes, John. It's fine to rethread the figure-8. As seen below: DO NOT join two ropes using a figure-8 in the same fashion as you would tie an EDK (overhand knot). When tied this way the knot has been known to invert or roll. Basic information here: chockstone.org/TechTips/Joi… |
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I am using an 8 mm static to tag but I thread the 8 mm through the anchor and tie an EDK since I am afraid I will stick a rope and be left with nothing but a static tag line to work with. Of course the 8 mm slips some so I tie the ends together and deal with feeding lead line through the ATC at the end of the rap if I need to. |
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Tom, |
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Well the photo shows the only way i tie a figure 8 |
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-Will |
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It might help if people started using the right name for the above "figure eight" knot. It is a Flemish Bend. If the real name of the knot were in better circulation there wouldn't be any mix up of terms and less worry/wonder. Just my two cents. |
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Tom Sherman wrote:We should get out before the rock season ends.Climbing season never ends in new england. . . |
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One issue not mentioned yet is the ability for you to pull the ropes. I have not yet been in a situation where I couldn't pull my ropes down using the skinny one, but if the anchor was way back on a slab, the friction could make pulling with the skinny rope very difficult. Consider carrying gloves so when pulling, the skinny rope doesn't dig into your hands if you have to pull really hard. |
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Keyword: ROCK |
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Tom Sherman wrote:Keyword: ROCK Morgan, Since you would be one in the know, you should teach me where to climb ice in CT, maybe I wont have to spend my whole winter driving up to NH from RI Haha I totally meant rock climbing ;-) Only time I don't climb in CT is the summer, really. Winter is great for bouldering in RI and CT, unless you like skiing deep pow in N. VT. Oh and I don't climb ice... rock breaks easily enough and being a bowling pin for chucks of ice the climber hurdles at you isnt my cup of fun either, huckin off cliffs into waist deep pow def! You can but I wouldn' t recommend fighting gravity all year long. Sometimes its nice to just give in a let it ride... |
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20 kN wrote:Rap on both strands. There is no advantage to rapping on only one, only an increase in risk. I dont use a biner to block the anchor, I just rap on both strands like they are twin ropes. I have never had problems with the rope moving through the anchor, you just need to be careful and aware.there are advantages to the biner block ... it just takes practice and you need to know where to use it or not every try re-ascending a 10mm + 7mm dual strand rappel? ... try it sometime simply fix the line with a clove, first person goes down ... etc ... the last person takes out the clove and raps on both strands, that way the person at the bottom anchor can give a firemans easy as apple pie ;) |
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JeffL wrote:One issue not mentioned yet is the ability for you to pull the ropes. I have not yet been in a situation where I couldn't pull my ropes down using the skinny one, but if the anchor was way back on a slab, the friction could make pulling with the skinny rope very difficult. Consider carrying gloves so when pulling, the skinny rope doesn't dig into your hands if you have to pull really hard.put the skinny tag in autoblock on your reverso attached to your belay loop, or use an autoblock munter (or garda) ... and simply let your body do the work if you are on a hanging belay a dynamic tether might be prudent with the above ;) |
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JeffL wrote:One issue not mentioned yet is the ability for you to pull the ropes. I have not yet been in a situation where I couldn't pull my ropes down using the skinny one, but if the anchor was way back on a slab, the friction could make pulling with the skinny rope very difficult. Consider carrying gloves so when pulling, the skinny rope doesn't dig into your hands if you have to pull really hard. Also, if you're trying to TR on a two rope set up, you open up a couple more logistics that you'll need to learn.It is not an issue of not being able to pull it all. Its an issue of getting the rope stuck and having 100 feet of 7 mm cord to work with to reclimb the pitch. I've stuck double ropes several times in Red Rocks due to wind. |