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Fleece jacket advice

El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 70
mattm wrote:So I'll throw a wrench in the gears... What's the PRIMARY use you envision for this piece? -Will it mainly be the primary outer layer while rock climbing and cragging? OR - Will it be the warmth layer you thrown on at the base, belays or under a shell? How breathable do you want it? Pack size? Micro Puffys (Nano, Atom LT, BD Access Hybrid LT etc) are all the rage these days and for good reason. They do very well at many things and are superior in the warmth to weight and packability ratio. HOWEVER, I've found that Fleece still has its uses and is superior in some regards, depending on use. The Nano Puffs simply WILL NOT be as durable - The lightweight shells are not abrasion resistant so if you see yourself doing a lot of "real" rock climbing where you'll be groveling against the rock now and then, fleece will still hold up better. One shoulder scum in a corner with a puffy and it could be toast. The puffs also then to be a bit more limited in their breathability vs fleece. This is why you see a push into the Nano Air or Polartec Alpha tech (breathable puffs). I've also noticed that "comfort" wise, I prefer a fleece when the sweat level is very high. So Alpine skiing where I might really be cranking the heat (bumps, deep pow etc) I like the fleece more as it wicks the moisture to the outer layer faster - I am curious to see how the Nano Air/ Alpha stuff works in these setups. For cool weather "real rock", I tend to prefer something like a Shoeller Softshell (e.g. BDV hoody) or a durable hard face fleece (Pata Piton Hybrid or Arcteryx Fortrez or Konseal). I'll carry an outer layer with me if the belays will be chilly (either a Nano Puff Pullover or Houdini wind shell). While it IS a marketing video and should be taken with a grain of salt (as I'm sure there are other vids with the climbers touting the latest/greatest), this spot from Patagonia resonated with me on WHY fleece still has a purpose youtube.com/watch?v=bD4PMaw…
First off, I'm very grateful for everyone's advice. I'm hoping you can help me out again. Given that most hybrid pieces (eg OR Acetelene) are out of my price range, I am looking at both the http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=33831236&cp=3707807.3693378 Vector and http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12441072 Divergence. The Vector seems more appropriate for high intensity stuff, but I already have Underarmor base layers and a lightweight Columbia fleece as I said before, I'm looking to fill in the gap between a lightweight fleece and a softshell outerlayer for winter or as a standalone outerlayer during the fall. Which do you think would be better suited to my needs?
jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

Two thoughts:

1. Buy nice or buy twice. If you're really after performance while climbing / hiking, you'll be really glad you got the performance pieces when you're actually out in the field doing your thing.

2. Your around-town gear doesn't need to be compressible or lightweight. I go cheap on my around-town stuff, and go nice on my outdoor stuff.

OK, as to your suggestions:
1. The Vector is styled as a less-breathable Patagonia R1 - style (it also looks a lot like the OR Radiant Hybrid Hoody). I've seen and handled these in the store last winter. The power stretch is nice and plush. It will have no wind-resistant properties, but with a smooth face will layer under a softshell better than something with a fleecy face (like the R2 or any other fleece). Sounds like it'll fit the bill for you.

2. The Divergence just looks like a plain ol' fleece, hard to understand how it is different than the Columbia you already own.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
scienceguy288 wrote: First off, I'm very grateful for everyone's advice. I'm hoping you can help me out again. Given that most hybrid pieces (eg OR Acetelene) are out of my price range, I am looking at both the EMS Vector and EMS Divergence. The Vector seems more appropriate for high intensity stuff, but I already have Underarmor base layers and a lightweight Columbia fleece as I said before, I'm looking to fill in the gap between a lightweight fleece and a softshell outerlayer for winter or as a standalone outerlayer during the fall. Which do you think would be better suited to my needs?
As above, the plain jane fleece will be similar to your columbia. The Divergence WindPro is likely more what you're looking for but even on sale at $70 I think you can find similar things on clearance.

Marmot Driclime Jackets are often around for ~$50-$60

I'd really cruise the web and search around - I've seen RAB, BD, MtnHrdwr etc for 40-60% off recently so if you can win the size/type lottery you might luck out.
El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 70
mattm wrote: As above, the plain jane fleece will be similar to your columbia. The Divergence WindPro is likely more what you're looking for but even on sale at $70 I think you can find similar things on clearance. Marmot Driclime Jackets are often around for ~$50-$60 I'd really cruise the web and search around - I've seen RAB, BD, MtnHrdwr etc for 40-60% off recently so if you can win the size/type lottery you might luck out.
Hmm...any opinions on the Mountain Hardware Monkey Man or Northface SDS? I just handled an R1 and it seems so thin to me; especially given that I tend to run cold...Would an R2 or R3 be too much?
El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 70
jaredj wrote:Two thoughts: 1. Buy nice or buy twice. If you're really after performance while climbing / hiking, you'll be really glad you got the performance pieces when you're actually out in the field doing your thing.
True, but I am also of the mind that solid construction can be had for the price point I have in mind; especially if I buy it used here or on Ebay.

jaredj wrote:2. Your around-town gear doesn't need to be compressible or lightweight. I go cheap on my around-town stuff, and go nice on my outdoor stuff.
As do I. Tons of crappy, but passable fleece in 2nd hand stores.

jaredj wrote:OK, as to your suggestions: 1. The Vector is styled as a less-breathable Patagonia R1 - style (it also looks a lot like the OR Radiant Hybrid Hoody). I've seen and handled these in the store last winter. The power stretch is nice and plush. It will have no wind-resistant properties, but with a smooth face will layer under a softshell better than something with a fleecy face (like the R2 or any other fleece). Sounds like it'll fit the bill for you.
My one concern is that it is so light. As I said, I already have a lighterweight fleece and am looking to get something more appropriate for colder weather. I tend to run cold too...

jaredj wrote:2. The Divergence just looks like a plain ol' fleece, hard to understand how it is different than the Columbia you already own.
I would say that the Columbia I own is a lightweight fleece. This seems a bit heavier (more of a midweight)...
Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
scienceguy288 wrote: Hmm...any opinions on the Mountain Hardware Monkey Man or Northface SDS? I just handled an R1 and it seems so thin to me; especially given that I tend to run cold...Would an R2 or R3 be too much?
You are comparing massively different articles of clothing. The monkey man is warm high loft, but you might as well be wearing paper if the wind is blowing.

The R1 is actually hot as sh*t when doing high aerobic activity, but is a favorite. I wouldn't compare it to an R2-3 Maybe check out an R4.

I'd recommend doing some web research on those pieces as you basically are going from A-Z with those jackets.
jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

You've articulated a desire for this insulating piece to be able to layer under your softshell in certain conditions. Any lofty fleece-faced item (and especially pieces like the R2 or Monkey Man) are gonna layer like shit under a softshell. The fleece will sorta 'bind' / stick, it'll feel bulky, and movement will kinda suck. This isn't an issue with smooth or hard faces (such as R1, or the EMS power stretch piece you linked earlier). Just something worth keeping in mind. I wanted to make this work when I was starting out as a climber / outdoorsman, and ultimately gave up because I hated the way it felt.

I also found that fleece was never quite enough as a stand-alone insulating piece when I was not moving even in fall weather (and went the route so many are suggesting here of a thin synthetic puff, which felt so much warmer for the weight and bulk).

Mike Gilbert · · Bend, OR · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 21

patagonia r2 is cheap and super solid. I use mine all the time

El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 70
mattm wrote: As above, the plain jane fleece will be similar to your columbia. The Divergence WindPro is likely more what you're looking for but even on sale at $70 I think you can find similar things on clearance. Marmot Driclime Jackets are often around for ~$50-$60 I'd really cruise the web and search around - I've seen RAB, BD, MtnHrdwr etc for 40-60% off recently so if you can win the size/type lottery you might luck out.
I went with the Divergence because it was around $50 on clearance. Seems like what I'm looking for: well reviewed, midweight, and wind resistant.
Tang · · SD · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 0

Light, warm under a shell, performs well alone in cooler shoulder seasons, I'm partial to the Arcteryx Atom LT myself, YMMV

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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