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Self-belay knots
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Is it possible to climb solo using knots to stop falls? |
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animatedknots.com/klemheist/
Beware, if you dont realize how they work or even if you do and you panic and grab at them the wrong way you could cause them to slip |
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You can lead or tr with clove hitches. Rope management ends up being a royal pain in the ass. A device made for rope soloing is a better option. Learning from a mentor is always better than leaning from the internet though. |
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You'll probably be bored stiff before you fall. It looks like there's some good information here: |
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This is something I worked up many years ago, and I've found it works very well. Its basically a carabiner-helical know with an additional loop on the base, which compresses the coils when the knot is raised, but which allows the knot to grab when the biner lowers. |
JeffL wrote:You can lead or tr with clove hitches. Rope management ends up being a royal pain in the ass. A device made for rope soloing is a better option. Learning from a mentor is always better than leaning from the internet though.Yea, clearly, everything on the internet pertaining knots, climbing rigs, etc. confuses the hell out of me. It seems like nobody really does self-belaying, is it really rare? |
John Marsella wrote:most people use a bit of hardware such as a grigri, soloist, mini-traxion, etc or a combination of hardware in various setups-- so, it is confusing.ya see those devices mentioned but explanations of their use real confusing "2 rope system...back up knots... clip in to second rope... yada yada"... lost |
John Marsella wrote:Most will call it "rope soloing" rather than "Self belay." It is not an uncommon practice. There are as many ways to rig it as there are rope soloists. The basic idea is that you use a two-rope system for redundancy-- I fold a rope in half, tie a fig-8 knot at the fold, and hang it from the top-anchor. Both strands should be weighted at the ground-end to make the devices run up the rope nicely... I hook a cinch belay device to one strand and a rope-man ascender device to the other rope strand. Both devices hook to the belay loop on the harness. Then you climb. When you fall, you hope at least one of the devices catch. When you get to the top, you unhook the ascender and rappel the other line with the belay device. But seriously, if the descriptions you're reading online aren't making sense, you probably need someone to show you in person how to set up the system so you don't fall out of the tree and break your legs or worse.that was a good explanation, thank you. so you don't set up top rope anchor every time right? which is why you are belaying off? |
John Marsella wrote:Most will call it "rope soloing" rather than "Self belay." It is not an uncommon practice. There are as many ways to rig it as there are rope soloists. The basic idea is that you use a two-rope system for redundancy-- I fold a rope in half, tie a fig-8 knot at the fold, and hang it from the top-anchor. Both strands should be weighted at the ground-end to make the devices run up the rope nicely... I hook a cinch belay device to one strand and a rope-man ascender device to the other rope strand. Both devices hook to the belay loop on the harness. Then you climb. When you fall, you hope at least one of the devices catch. When you get to the top, you unhook the ascender and rappel the other line with the belay device. But seriously, if the descriptions you're reading online aren't making sense, you probably need someone to show you in person how to set up the system so you don't fall out of the tree and break your legs or worse.why use two rope ends and not just two devices on one line like this vimeo.com/47156559 |
jamesldavis1 wrote: why use two rope ends and not just two devices on one line like this vimeo.com/47156559You "can" run two devices on one line and that's better than one (devices do fail), but a lot of pitches are going to be 1/2 or less of your rope length, if you already have enough line to fix two ropes you might as well use them. In the middle of the rope you can tie one or two figure eights on bights and you effectively are hanging two totally independent lines so if one gets cut (rock abrasion or a poor choice of ascenders that destroy your rope in the fall) your other one is still good. Clip both into redundant locking carabiners at your top rope master point (in turn tied off to redundant anchor points). That all said, some people run one device one one line and call it good. You'll see lots of the documentary type videos of the "pros" out working moves on some free climb project half way up El Cap on a single line with a GriGri or minitrax, and nothing else to keep them from 1,000' fall.. It's all about how much risk you want to mitigate and what you are going to be comfortable with... then live or die with your choice. Another simple way to provide a rope solo backup is to tie occasional bights on the second rope, then alternately clip into those as you climb higher, using a biner on a sling girth hitched to your harness. Redundancy is a huge concept for climbing safety. Petzl has several tech articles with more on all this as well: petzl.com/en/Sport/General-… |
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I am assuming you are using a top rope? |
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RFrme I have a 70m 9.8 so your idea of going halfies makes mucho sense. I'm gonna do it. Double 8 on bight on main anchor point for TR anyway. |
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Again, it would be helpful if folks clearly state in the thread title or first post whether they're talking TR solo, aid solo, or free lead rope solo - leads to less confusion both when attempting to offer advice and for folks reading the thread down the road. |
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I have a fairly complex TR solo setup (ascension, microtrax, harness, on two strands made from one rope via eights on bights), but... can that be replaced by an autoblock connected to a biner on the belay loop, wrapped around the "belayer" side of the rope (with a pack full o' rocks keeping tension?)? jg |
SW Marlatt wrote: . . . a carabiner-helical know with an additional loop on the base, which compresses the coils when the knot is raised, but which allows the knot to grab when the biner lowers. I've used this for many years to solo TR. . . . Thanks for sharing that creative idea. The page (with nice photo) for the Marlatt knot |
kenr wrote: Please note that while the picture on Gary's site does a decent job of illustrating the knot, I would very, very strongly encourage using it with a beefy, steel locker if you're going to solo TR. There's some potential of lateral or tri-axial loading of the biner, so be sure to use something pretty stout! |
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Roger that! |
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Lack of climbing partners have moved me towards tr solo which ive become to really enjoy, micro traxion with ropeman has become my set up in 67 now it took awhile to get my nerve back. |
jamesldavis1 wrote: Is it possible to climb solo using knots to stop falls? I probably wont be falling much, but need something for backup safety. Free climbing my tree 40 ft up enough times... may end up falling. Something we use at the adventures center I work at if you’re not lead climbing is a double figure 8 with slightly less than a 6 foot tail attached to the harness. And then tie a Blake’s hitch around the other end of the rope using the tail. Then as we climb we tie our own safety knots so that on the slim chance the hitch slips it’ll stop on the knot. It’s probably a good idea to have a loop tied to the free end with a prussec hitch for your foot because it sometimes takes people 2 hands to slide the hitch up the rope at first. It takes a lot of practice to be fast at self belaying with this, but it’s really enjoyable once you get the hang of it. I tried attaching a photo but I have no idea if it worked. |
