Etiquette Reminder

Hopefully you guise reported these people to the authorities that would handle such matters wait there isn't one.

Totally get your post Chris and sympathize but it is the Gunks. Pretty much par for the course for new yorkers... its like skiing at Hunter Mountain in the winter.

I feel your pain, same thing happened at crow hill in MA weekend before last, tied up popular climbs from 10 until I left around 230. Guy obviously had no idea what he was doing, swinging from the rope like donkey Kong.

N00bies gon' n00b. +1 to camhead's comment that this doesn't happen on 5.9

camhead wrote: If you lead 5.9 or harder, you will almost never wait in line, as opposed to how you have to wait in line for even 5.13s at the RRG.

Not if you are climbing on gear, you don't. The entry level to non-line-climbing is similar at RRG last I recalled if it was a crack. The lines were on easy stuff.

Jim Fox wrote:First come, first serve, whether you are leading, TRing or aiding. But be considerate and just climb the thing and then get off.....

+1

Simple and to the point. I would just add; if you have an issue, talk with the other party in a respectful manner. IME this almost always solves the problem.

Chris Duca wrote:For clarity's sake, the group was comprised of 6 people, including the person relaxing in the hammock. Upon asking politely if we could lead the route, their group leader said that a person in their group was out on a run and also wanted to climb the route. He also asked if we would be fast. To this I replied that it is best practice to let those wishing to lead the route to do so, and that a route cannot be reserved for someone who is not present. This is much more than a right-of-way issue--it's common courtesy and common sense.

There is a HUGE difference between what happened to you as described above and the idea that a "leader" has the right of way. While I still disagree with "it is best practice to let those wishing to lead the route to do so," I 100% concur with "a route cannot be reserved for someone who is not present." IMHO, in this case you had every right to move their stuff out of the way and get on the route.

As a aside, who are the asshats who leave their ropes hanging all over a crag and then expect everyone to respect their claim to these routes until they decide to remove their ropes. Have a little common sense here, folks. On a busy day at a crowded crag, a little courtesy goes a long way.

They also had a rope on apoplexy/coronary with some directionals in while they were over at uber watching all their tr's.

Because this is a trad climbing area, custom dictates that the party that plans to lead has the right to go first.

Agreed. The trapps is a trad crag, lead climbers have priority. Been that way a long time. It's not the ethic everywhere but that how it is here. Have to respect the local ethics.
That said, a civil conversation should be able to appease everyone.

"lead climbers get the priority"

I remember this ethic. I think I agree with it too but would love to meet the party first, BS a bit about the sandbag ratings and share the wall.

Steve

I see this argument has not abated. This was happening in the early 90's when I first started climbing there up until I left NY for CO in 2001. Of course I'm sure it's worse now, seeing as how gyms have popularized climbing and more are getting out. Back then it was nice; you could be on the rock before 7, sleep on the hairpin, and get a few routes in before most climbers got up. Great place to climb regardless. Keep it cordial.

I'm guessing the "leaders have priority" is one or both of:

- One guy leading (or one guy leading with another following) is faster than several people TR'ing, especially if TR implies they are going to have a tough time?

- Gunks is a "trad place", so TR'ers are tolerated out of courtesy but the area is seen as "belonging to" lead climbers?

I've never been there, but I'm curious.

This reads like a massive troll by East Coasters to scare people away from climbing in the Gunks.

Do you all really need a guidebook to teach you how to share?

Ryan Hill wrote:This reads like a massive troll by East Coasters to scare people away from climbing in the Gunks.

Let's hope it works.

Ryan Hill wrote:Do you all really need a guidebook to teach you how to share?

Experience suggests the answer is yes, and this has nothing to do with the gunks. Other crowded venues with combined top-roping and leading opportunities have exactly the same issues. Unfortunately, guidebook exhortations aren't going to make inconsiderate people any more civil.

Morgan Patterson wrote:it is the Gunks.

Also, where did this notion arise from that you have some right to lead if people are on the climb before you? First come, first served.

Get up earlier if you know it is a classic route that gets occupied by newer parties who are, quite literally, learning the ropes.

Dam New Yorkers think they own everything!

Dude! Like plenty of rock to go around out here Brah!

While I do sympathize with your battle of the nOObs there, consider climbing at the Lost City instead, which requires a short hike with a faint path and has pretty much untouched rock full of lichen that needs some climbing feet to wear off. I personally like how the Gunks has cleaned up over the years with route bases being pretty much devoid of vegetation. Go do that up at Lost City. It's just one ridge over and as I recall the parking is much less crowded and you get a very nice waterfall to go look at. As told to me by Dr. Kodos, this place was secret even back in the 80s. You had to know someone that knew where it was. It's right under your noses. Go claim that as your own. The nOObs have no idea.

I had a group out at our sport crag last weekend and made sure we always had someone climbing on the ropes. Some people came by and wanted to do a route next to us and I started cleaning routes so they had something to move on to after that one. In fact, I advertised what we were done with. Group leaders could stand to do more of that. Definitely invite people into your group if they look interested.

mcarizona wrote:"lead climbers get the priority"

Do soloists have priority over lead climbers?

Though the practice of "TR gang-banging routes at the Gunks is in very poor style...many of the previous comments are "spot-on".

Either wake-up and get to your route first and get there before the army "gang-bangers" arrive, or walk a little farther down the carriage road to find another climb, maybe one that is not a classic (there are hundreds) or just don't visit the Gunks on a crowded Fall weekend. One has to accept the fact, that during certain times of the year, the Gunks are "over-loved".

As a thought, is it really worth climbing your favorite project lead route, amongst a cluster-$%&* of dangling TR ropes with questionable anchors and a group clueless noobs being force-fed incorrect beta, while their chosen leader is off scouting another route at the Uberfal to "lay-claim" and monopolize for the entire weekend.

On the other hand, maybe take a break from actual climbing and visit the Gunks on a crowded Fall weekend just to get a laugh at the "shit-show". Nature's practice of "Darwinism and natural selection" can be really fun comedy.

Blissab wrote: Do soloists have priority over lead climbers?