Reorganizing Oregon

I think having a section that has major cities in Oregon, and the crags within 1/2 hr, vs 1 hr vs 2 hrs. would be useful.

And I support removing 'the little crags' despite what the guy who submitted it says b/c I don't think he has even been there...

My wife and I are the main developers and want it removed b/c the trails & belays are narrow and fragile given the amount of pure ash in the 'soil'.

We have done what we can to harden-up deer trails for access, as allowed under the Access Fund and USFS memorandum of understanding. But despite the arrival of a guide, if more than just the usual local crew heads out there sections of the trail will sluff away.

And there can not be an Access Fund Adopt-A-Crag work-party, or any trail work done that uses tools, until those trails have had a federal environmental review. We are pursuing that, but its years off. Until then, please remove TLC. Cheers, Paul

Paul, noted about TLC. We will remove it until further notice.

I'll give this thread a week before I make a final decision. As of right now, it seems that reorganizing into zones is the popular consensus. These zones will be...

(1) Portland & The Gorge, (2) Mt Hood, (3) Central Oregon, (4) Willamette Valley, (5) Oregon Cascades, (6) Northeast Oregon, (7) Southwest Oregon

The coast and southeast will not have zones until there are significant areas to add there. As of now, the only coastal zones will likely be deleted, as they do not have any useful information.

These are the crags that either need the submitter to add more content or someone to adopt them (I can give editing privileges). Otherwise, they will be deleted:
Alsea Wall, Corvallis Boulders, Depoe Bay, Eagle Creek, Eagle Crest Resort, Hagg Lake Rock Slab, Portland Buildering, Rail Road Crag in LO, Rocky Creek, Santiam Pinnacle, Shellburg Falls, Steins Pillar, and Tumalo SP.

Done. Please let me know what y'all think. Also, check the "Pending" area if you are interested to take up some editorship, otherwise they may disappear.

I added directions and location to Steins Pillar, and updated route info on one route.

Nate, the page looks great, thanks for your work. One question, there were two pages for The Garden, what happened to the other one? There were a lot of redundancies, admittedly, but that page also had a lot more problems than the 19 on the Garden's current page.

Looks nice. Thanks for doing this.

My only recommendation would be in the "Portland & The Gorge" area, where you list the Washington climbs nearby, it would be nice if those were links so I could quickly get to, say, the Ozone from that page.

Michael, The other section of the Garden was deleted at the request of the person who put them up. They had no images or map, and no good way to accurately figure out which boulder was which problem. There will be a guidebook coming out soon, and hopefully people will start posting problems with pictures and locations so it will be more helpful.

Overall, I think the new organization looks good. Given that Mt. Hood is in it's own section I might suggest that links be added in the text of the descriptions for the volcano section so if someone gets there they can easy get to Mt. Hood snow routes. And perhaps visa-versa.

Side topic suggestion. Is it organizationally acceptable for you to cross-list hells canyon in the database? It makes much sense in terms of physical geography, if not political boundaries (the formations lies on the idaho shores of the snake), and the place is worthy of more exposure to users who otherwise are unaware.

Well Mr. Ball, you have proven your self to be a true Nazi. I don't particularlly care what credentials you have. I too am an Oregonian, and have litterally lived and climbed all over the state, and probalby been climbing longer than you have been alive. It any amount of "credentials" your approach to deleting all reference to small or limited access crags is entirely uncalled for, and defeniltely shows limited experience. I also see that many posts have been removed, particularlly from a dear friend of mine Tyler Adams, who tragically passed away this fall in a plane crash. He posted the Alsea wall and I contributed to it. I imagine that you may have tried to contact him, but he was no longer on this earth (RIP). I also note that you deleted the Egin Wall, a crag that I climbed at extensively. If you tried to email me, I am sure it went into my spam trap as I have that pretty buttoned up so I don't get random emails by a bunch of douche bags.

Why delete crags that have poor or limited access currently? The only way to get access to these areas is to keep them in the collective consiousness with the hope that one day a movement can be made to provide access. Since you haven't been climbing long, you may not realize that many crags went without access for years if not decades, to latter become some of the most popular crags today. Wiping away all info surely will mean these areas will be lost forever. I applaud the re-organization, but a one-mans opinion approach to deleting information is very much in the Hitler/Nazi camp.

Shapp. Nate actually didn't do any of the changes on his own. We discussed them at length before any changes were made. Alesa Wall was deleted due to it being a secret, and apparently private wall, something Mountain Project does not support. I had contacted you about it, and received a rude reply, and no info that would lead me to believe that it would be open to public in the future. So it was removed from MP. If in the future access is granted, feel free to add it again.
As far as Tyler goes, don't bring him into this. I was in extensive contact with him about many of his additions and the work he did. This was before his unfortunate death. So don't go spouting statements like that to try and demean others.
There have been several posts deleted from climbers, posts that were unnecessary or rude.
Otherwise nothing should have been touched.
So please, don't go around calling people "nazis" and other names. Not only is it uncalled for, it violates MP's rules about posting, and posts like that will most likely be deleted.
Also, Egin wall? Ive never heard of it, if it's an open climbing area, and is an area you know and want to adopt, then feel free to add it.
I don't recall it being deleted, was it under another name? We only deleted a couple of crags, either closed crags, or smallr crags with no access info, and no-one we could connect with.

Uhh... cool. So, based on your constructive criticism, what exactly is the problem?

Please restore the deleted crags or delete my account/user info.

Holding yourself ransom. I like it!

Shapp. You are more than welcome to add any area you feel should be added. Provided that they list directions to the crag, and reliable and accurate info. If you have an excellent reason for adding a private crag (such as Madrone, in Portland, the people working on the access expect to have it opened within a year, so we are cool with keeping it up, with no directions or route info until it is opened), list the reason, and the admins will decide if it should be kept or not. Mountain Project is here to provide up-to-date info on climbing areas that the public can access, not a place to list all your secret areas that you don't want anyone coming to.
Alesa Wall for example. Apparently secret, and apparently private, and apparently access isn't allowed except for a select few special people. That doesn't fall into line with what Mountain Project is about. Keep it secret for all we care, but then don't list it on a public climbing database. Once it's public, feel more than free to list it, with our full support.
Also, the reason Elgin Wall was deleted is because the owner of the property does not allow climbing anymore, and so to climb there is trespassing. Having the area listed encourages that trespassing, and hence it was deleted. If you have info to the otherwise, feel free to contact me about it.
As far as your account, well, that's rather ironic. You're going to call us "Nazi's", and bash us with false statements, and then threaten to remove yourself from MP if we don't comply with your demands? Not exactly a terrifying thought. We'd love to have your experience with listing areas and routes, and maintaining accurate info for public use, but if you aren't willing to be civil about it, we won't miss you either.

You are just pissed because I wouldn't give you directions to Alsea all after it became closed. No one has access to it now. It isn't anyone's secret crag.

Please delete me as a user from this site. I'll be out climbing and paddleing while you are re-organizing and censoring.

Good bye
Shap

Micah Klesick wrote:The reason Elgin Wall was deleted is because the owner of the property does not allow climbing anymore, and so to climb there is trespassing. Having the area listed encourages that trespassing, and hence it was deleted.

FWIW, I do not agree with this statement. For instance, I believe it would be a benefit to the community to list a closed area but no routes. In the case of Elgin Wall which I have climbed at years ago but did not know until recently that is was closed until there was a post on the page listing it.

My suggestion would be to list the area with a general description of its location but noting very boldly that the area is closed and that climbers are asked to respect the closure. In this way MP would be giving climbers valid current information, rather than having climbers spying a potentially "new" crag and inadvertently trespassing or posting up routes. I believe this would be especially helpful for crags that were at one time open but now closed.

The same should done with Madrone - if the crag is closed, it is closed, period. Why list the area and display the routes? Note the closure and hide the routes until it is open. Trying to predict the future opening is a specious reason for keeping the area list if MP is going to remove other closed areas. The policy is not consistent.

Just to clarify, madrone is listed as closed, with potential to open soon, with no routes or areas listed. MP doesn't support secret crags, and the only reason that closed crags are listed on MP is if it was a popular area that got closed and people need to know that it's closed to prevent access issues. If a crag falls under that criteria, then feel free to add it with that reason and statement.

Thanks for the clarification on Madrone, I have not been on the Oregon page for a while.

That said, could the Elgin wall section be brought back? I'll edit the section to make it current.