Long rapell, inadvertent firemans belay.

Dallas R wrote: I think the above is acceptable in shorter rappels where you can observe the rappel. In this case the rap went over a couple of ledges, I could only see her the last 75’ of the rap. It would be an interesting ride for 125’ until I could observe there was a problem and apply the fireman’s belay.

I'd count on her screaming.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but rapping single strand would probably help to solve this problem. That of course brings up other issues that need attention such as rigging the ropes to pull and choosing the right side to rap on. You'd have to decide on the trade offs...

LLubchenco wrote: I'd count on her screaming.

Between me being slightly hard of hearing, the wind, not being line of sight, and the distance I wouldn’t hear her until about the same time I could see her.

Eric Klammer wrote:I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but rapping single strand would probably help to solve this problem. That of course brings up other issues that need attention such as rigging the ropes to pull and choosing the right side to rap on. You'd have to decide on the trade offs...

Another advanced technique; How to you keep the EDK from pulling through? Ok, it probably wouldn’t, but how do you make sure it doesn’t pull through or get jammed; and then how to you pull the rope?

Dallas R wrote: Another advanced technique; How to you keep the EDK from pulling through? Ok, it probably wouldn’t, but how do you make sure it doesn’t pull through or get jammed; and then how to you pull the rope?

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_ReepschnurRappels.htm

FrankPS, thanks for the link. That is really good information. I can see the advantages of taking a lighter cord to "pull" with. After all I carried the second rope up the climb on my back, I can truly appreciate a lighter draw cord.

The Reepschnur rappel method appears to rely on some known information, like what type of anchors you are dealing with. I may eventually use this technique, it is another tool for my toolbox. I see two problems with it but these are not insurmountable:

1: you have to know that you can do this with anchor, odds are, you can, then you meet up with some bull rings and small link chains. Now you have to go to plan c.

2: Given my weight, I am much more likely to jam the rigging than most. Even the clipped figure 8 as shown in the link has the possibility of pulling through in such a manner as to be difficult to pull it back. Add to that the amount of stretch in a fully extended 60m rope it would compound the issue.

I am very well acquainted with Murphy's Law.

Dallas R wrote:The Reepschnur rappel method appears to rely on some known information, like what type of anchors you are dealing with. I see two problems with it but these are not insurmountable: 1: you have to know that you can do this with anchor, odds are, you can, then you meet up with some bull rings and small link chains.

If you know that you're heading out with the intent to reepschnur and you don't know the type of anchors you'll encounter, it's not too hard to bring a couple light quicklinks and 1/2" webbing to give yourself a proper rap point to reepschnur from.

Dallas R wrote:2: Given my weight, I am much more likely to jam the rigging than most. Even the clipped figure 8 as shown in the link has the possibility of pulling through in such a manner as to be difficult to pull it back. Add to that the amount of stretch in a fully extended 60m rope it would compound the issue.

For what it's worth, I've reepschnured with a full haulbag off of an oval biner. I was one pitch from the ground and was interested to see if it would work. Obviously a single experience so the sample size is worthless, but it does seem as though it's harder to pull the rigging through an oversized opening (with the backup loop clipped to the live rope of course) than it seems it should be even with my body, two portaledges, and full aid rack in the haulbag weighting the rope. Granted, I use a larger knot than most do so there's more to jam. Obviously, I use a much shorter loop when I tie it. It seems like the sort of thing that will get caught on things more, but in my experience, the butterfly flows flat against the rock and doesn't seem to catch anymore than other knots do.

kevin deweese wrote: it's not too hard to bring a couple light quicklinks and 1/2" webbing to give yourself a proper rap point to reepschnur from.

Because we are guests in climbing areas I like to give back as best I can. I carry Petzl quicklinks to donate were needed. I also carry either 30' or 60' of 5mm cordellette for those special occasions.