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What is this world coming to?!?

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
Tony B wrote: How about another question -how likely is it that you will get a better resolution on it by complaining on the net later than by trying to work something out right there?
So here's the thing, that's a silly statement, if we're talking about a specific resolution with the offensive party, then maybe "working something out right there" would he more effective. But then you're flipping a coin as to whether of not that person reacts well or badly. And if they react badly, then you didn't get anything accomplished. Whereas bringing it up on this forum can generate discussion and thought on the topic to a broader audience. While the latter definitely has a less profound impact, it does spread the message over a larger audience.

Humans are generally just as bad at accepting criticism face to face as they are at having the courage to give it. So the whole "anonymous courage" of the internet is an oversimplification of the fact that well. Sometimes folks can have the courage to positively respond to criticism more readily through an abstract method of communication than with a verbal confrontation.

I consistently see this attitude from a lot of regular posters, the whole "why are you bitching about something online, go do so and so in the real world. Like go climbing."

Well, honestly, just because someone is actively verbalizing opinions online during the work week doesn't mean that they don't actually participate in our sport to a productive, successful degree. Some do, some don't. It doesn't really matter though.

That attitude lowers the level of discourse on here as much as any post by Joan Lee. If we don't believe that discussion here can lead to productive consensus, then what's the point, we're brought down to petty disagreement.

I fervently love this website and the dialog that this forum can engender. But we're all guilty (that includes myself) of responding to things we find disagreeable with a "screw you guys, I'm going home" attitude that doesn't make climbing any better for anyone.
Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486
Tony B wrote: How about another question -how likely is it that you will get a better resolution on it by complaining on the net later than by trying to work something out right there?
I wouldn't do either one, I'd just move on and go climb something else.
Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

“Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don't resist them; that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.”
-Lao Tzu

Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

I understand Blueprint's point, it's just that where I grew up, the other party "reacting badly" was a lot less likely to only be a matter of "not getting anything accomplished."

Depending on the situation, could be anything from a nasty verbal argument to being chased by a guy with a machete.

Hard to get that kind of conditioning out of your brain even when you've lived in an objectively-safer place for 25 years, so I tend to be more of a "prudence is the better part of valor" kind of person.

William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

MC Poopypants said: “Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don't resist them; that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.”
-Lao Tzu

Great quote. Thanks for sharing dude.

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

"I want to get everyone to stop acting like goddamn pussies all the time. So I didn't just sign the baddest athletes - I hired 'en to run the company. Me and Matt Cassel just f*cked you up, dog."

-Kenny Powers

jondsheldahl · · Cedar Falls, Iowa · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 5

I fail to see how being a local or not somehow entitles you to a crag or line. First come first serve just like everything else in life. You don't like it, move on. There is absolutely no reason to hangdog on a rout for 3+ hrs, but when did we all stop remembering that we are, in fact, adults. Learn to share or go home, because none of us want to deal with your elitist, selfish bologna. And if you meet me at the crag, be nice, i'll be nice back and we can all get along and hang out. We all climb for the same reason, so lets show some respect for our fellow man and not be bogarts and douche nozzles.

Jim T · · Colorado · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 469

I don't know anything about CCC because I am not a 5.11 climber. But I think this post in the comments section for CCC, dated 2007, is interesting:

" I know a lot of people would frown on this but, this climb is a great place to practice aid climbing (clean of course), along with the aid roof a little farther west on Castle Rock. If you're rusty and headed for a big wall or trying to learn, taking laps on this is great fun.

Side note: Try to climb this when it is not conducive to free climbing, i.e. cold, night, early am, winter or the like. Be mindful, if aid climbing, that this is a very popular and quality free line and chocking it up for hours aiding would be less than polite."

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
BigFeet wrote: Options most of us pick: 1- Try to live by the "golden rule", be the "bigger man", and all the other cliches you've heard. 2- Get mad/upset and ruin your day. 3- Don't get mad, get even. Remember, what you pick may be different than someone else's.
You forgot option 4: Do nothing at the time. Stew about it and then go blow up on mountain project.
Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245
nicelegs wrote:Everyone has already climbed it. Let the aid climbers have it.
LOL
GabeO · · Boston, MA · Joined May 2006 · Points: 302
Jim Turner wrote:I don't know anything about CCC because I am not a 5.11 climber. But I think this post in the comments section for CCC, dated 2007, is interesting: " I know a lot of people would frown on this but, this climb is a great place to practice aid climbing (clean of course), along with the aid roof a little farther west on Castle Rock. If you're rusty and headed for a big wall or trying to learn, taking laps on this is great fun. Side note: Try to climb this when it is not conducive to free climbing, i.e. cold, night, early am, winter or the like. Be mindful, if aid climbing, that this is a very popular and quality free line and chocking it up for hours aiding would be less than polite."
I'm curious - what about that comment did you find interesting? It sounds like it's stating what we all know, and has been discussed ad nauseum here. What am I missing?

GO
Ryan Arment · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 71

Lets just bolt CCC then aiders and free climbers will send faster than ever!

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Christian wrote: I wouldn't do either one, I'd just move on and go climb something else.
That's what I do Athlete's Feat is right there and is pretty good and near comperable in grade. And then Tongo is down to the left a way, with Atlas Shrugged not far off. In fact, you can even get on Englishman's Home to pass on this line if indeed the party is low and slow on CCC. But the parties here didn't do that, they complained on line, leading to my question.
The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
VARMENT wrote:Lets just bolt CCC then aiders and free climbers will send faster than ever!
Genius
Jim T · · Colorado · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 469

What's interesting is that it is from 2007 and just as you said, basically said the same stuff as here on this thread in 2014. In fact many comments talk about the issue, So SSDD I guess.

I do imagine the route has only become congested in the last 7 years, making it that much more necessary for all climbers to be considerate of each other. That being said, I have no idea if aid climbers should defer to free climbers. I haven't done either and don't know squat about the issue.

Ryan Arment · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 71
James Dean Anderson wrote: Either that or we can work on our next project - dry tooling second ascent of the naked edge ha ha
WTF!? Im half impressed and half depressed about this
Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486
VARMENT wrote: WTF!? Im half impressed and half depressed about this
It's called Photoshop, look it up.
Guy Kenny Jr · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 10

Hahaha,

I aided it yesterday. Great long line to teach on. 2:10 car to car. I think that is about how long it takes me to free it. Although I have never gotten the red point... Close, but no cigar.

Hot sun, rain, thunder. Good times.

Notes.
-It was a Monday at 9 AM.
-Sunny and hot.
-Rained and thundered at the end.
-Really hoped to not see anyone wanting to free it come along.

That was the first time I've aided it, but I'd be willing to bet that I can aid it faster than most guys or gals going for an onsite.

Cheers,

Prod.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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