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Gunks Climbers, You May Find This Of Interest

Original Post
Will Cohen · · Denver, Co · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 80
Chris Duca · · Dixfield, ME · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 2,330

Quite polished looking App. Does it climb the route for me, as well?

In all seriousness, having climbed in the Gunks for 20 years now, I could still see using this handy app for The Bank, Bonticou, or even Lost City (Gasp!), if those became available at some point.

Paul H · · Pennsylvania · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 5

Looks nice! Android version in the works?

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
WillamR wrote:http://www.gunksapps.com/
Looks like a badass app, sleek stylish and very informative... ya would be great to see the other less frequented areas. I would choose this over a guidebook. Esp with hi res topos, that's the gold imo.
SethG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 291

Chris and Tom, congratulations! The app is beautiful! I am just browsing through it and see that the app is loaded with insightful variations and even new routes to check out. The high res topos look great on my iPhone 5 and you can blow up the pictures to an amazing level of detail. Great work.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Chris Duca wrote:Quite polished looking App. Does it climb the route for me, as well? In all seriousness, having climbed in the Gunks for 20 years now, I could still see using this handy app for The Bank, Bonticou, or even Lost City (Gasp!), if those became available at some point.
The app itself looks incredible, but I sincerely hope that Bonticou and Lost City are never added.
steverett · · Boston, MA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105

I, too, would buy this if there were an android version!

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Chris Duca wrote: I could still see using this handy app for The Bank, Bonticou, or even Lost City (Gasp!), if those became available at some point.
Morgan Patterson wrote:...ya would be great to see the other less frequented areas.
Chris's website (Chris F, not Chris D), thewhitecliff.com, already does as much as should ever be done for Millbrook. It is a matter of Preserve policy to keep outlying areas (Lost City and Bonticuo are examples) from being documented, because they want to keep the traffic down in those locations as part of a stratified usage plan. Anyone who heads down the road of ignoring the Preserve's restrictions (I believe a bouldering guide to Lost City has already been proposed) is going to come into direct conflict with the Preserve and its land stewardship goals, with unpredictable consequences for future access for all.

One of the wonderful and rather unique aspects of the Gunks is that there are accessible climbed-in areas that are still provide the climber with the experience of exploration and discovery, experiences that are vanishing from the world climbing scene. Most climbers have to mount expeditions (and not to highly-traveled destinations) to have such experiences. The human urge to document, reveal, enumerate, and categorize every aspect of life is obviously powerful and almost unstoppable, and we have reached the point where adventure climbing is an endangered species threatened with extinction.

Saying such things on a site dedicated to the dissemination of beta is, of course, heresy, and I fully expect the flammage that will ensue.

Whether future generations of Gunks climbers will cherish or destroy their rare and irreplaceable resources, and whether the Preserve will be able to protect those resources, is unclear. The apparently insatiable desire of the general climbing public for increasingly detailed information, coupled with the human drive to document, does not bode well.

As for the Trapps, their popularity, exceptional accessibility, and prodigious documentation long ago removed them from any consideration as an area one might think of "protecting." Chris's app, a beautiful realization of the genre, representing a fantastic amount of hard and painstaking work, is clearly the next step in the inevitable progression of beta delivery.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
rgold wrote: Chris's website (Chris F, not Chris D), thewhitecliff.com, already does as much as should ever be done for Millbrook.
How complete is their site regarding FA information?
rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Pretty complete as far as I can tell, slightly more up-to-date than the Millbrook section of Grey Dick.

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
rgold wrote:Pretty complete as far as I can tell, slightly more up-to-date than the Millbrook section of Grey Dick.
Seems like a lot of potential for new routes... worth exploring or mostly a death trap?
Will Cohen · · Denver, Co · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 80

Rgold,

Nailed it per usual.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Morgan Patterson wrote: Seems like a lot of potential for new routes... worth exploring or mostly a death trap?
The only way to know is to go out and have a look!

Millbrook is perhaps the "traddest" cliff in the country, with a host of really hard routes, no bolts whatsoever, a handful of fixed pitons at most, and a long history of ground-up no-preview approaches to even the hardest routes. The rock isn't always perfect, protection cannot always be placed, the general angle is significantly steeper than that Trapps, and an accident would be much more consequential than it is at the Trapps. It's a cliff that would be more at home in the U.K. than the U.S.

Inasmuch as climbing culture is evolving away from the acceptance of risk and its management as a central ingredient in trad climbing, it doesn't seem likely that future generations will strive to live up to the traditions established on this cliff. However, the Preserve ban on fixed protection means that the crag will not be sportified with fixed protection and anchors, as has happened to most of the "trad" destination in the U.S.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
rgold wrote: The only way to know is to go out and have a look!


Always is the case ;-) thanks. I assume the fixed gear that climbers did utilize, ie the pitons you mentioned, were all placed before the Preserve ban?

I always find i kinda funny how folks tend to do what you did and speak negatively of bolts while accepting over conveniently overlooking the use of pitons by earlier trad climbers. While I know that wasn't the point at all of your comment, it does feel like there's this double standard present in your comment.
Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804

Someone told me that they will be installing cell phone chargers along the Carriage Road.

Gilman Coryell · · Mount Vernon, ME · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 65

"traddest"

Very nice. That is the traddest.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Morgan Patterson wrote: I assume the fixed gear that climbers did utilize, ie the pitons you mentioned, were all placed before the Preserve ban? I always find i kinda funny how folks tend to do what you did and speak negatively of bolts while accepting the use of pitons by earlier trad climbers. While I know that wasn't the point at all of your comment, it does feel like there's this double standard present in your comment.
I'm not absolutely positive, but I think the very few fixed pitons there are are from very early ascents from before there were nuts. All were placed before the Preserve ban, mostly years before it I think. Some of the now-free lines were aid routes and some of the soft iron used BITD may still be there in one or two spots. I'm not sure that any of the fixed iron is necessary in the sense of not being replaceable by passive gear; there might be one or two such occurrences. I haven't even encountered a fixed pin at Millbrook in the last ten years.

As for equating pitons and bolts and the purported of hypocrisy in failing to do so, that is one of those contentious arguments which, as you say, it is neither the point of my comment nor the point of the thread. Moreover, if you genuinely can't grasp the difference between using an existing natural feature to place a piton and drilling a hole in the rock wherever you want to place a bolt, then it is unlikely that any argument will be any more than a shouting match.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
rgold wrote: Moreover, if you genuinely can't grasp the difference between using an existing natural feature to place a piton and drilling a hole in the rock wherever you want to place a bolt, then it is unlikely that any argument will be any more than a shouting match.
Its the only diff I see in them lol so no need for a shouting match! Cheers and thanks!
Ron Birk · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 4,263

I have to warn people about this app. It's missing 200 routes from the Trapps including many classics.

I wish I knew what criteria they used to select their highlights.

BigA · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 0

What classics are missing?? My app has almost 300 climbs, all of which are worth doing. So what if they left out the junk??

SethG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 291

I am guessing that more climbs will be added. I'm sure they left out many climbs on purpose. But right now the app stops at the Slime Wall and doesn't list anything in Sleepy Hollow, such as Wegetables or 10,000 Restless Virgins. This I have to figure they are going to rectify in time.

I would definitely quibble about why they left some climbs out, but with the exception of the entirely absent Sleepy Hollow climbs, they aren't three star classics. I was surprised not to see Gaston or Jim's Gem, for instance. Both of these are classics and worthwhile but they aren't the most highly regarded or popular. Some classics are reclassified as variations, so sometimes a climb isn't missing but rather is differently indexed.

I think maybe they should say somewhere that the app is a "Select" listing and not totally comprehensive. In addition to the routes not covered there are many routes in which only the first pitch is listed.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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