BD X4, ongoing real-world review (will update over time)
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Ray Pinpillage wrote: That isn't Bearbreeder's info, he's simply parroting what was already on the internet. Four broken cams is statistically irrelevant and the implication that since X4's stay bent a little somehow correlates to four failed cams in the UK is fairly stupid. With that said, all gear should be inspected. frayed slings and cables with broken wires should be retired. That applies to all gear including cams.this isnt rays real post hes simply screaming with CAPS and exclamation marks !!! for some little flaming =P there was some discussion as to whether repeated flexing and kinking of cables can cause weakening ... and the answer backed up by REAL examples is yes ... it can as to the X4s, it may or may not ... however unless you KNOW what to look for you might well miss it ray is simply trying to use personal attacks to confuse people checking their cams for frayed cables its not like he advised people to do this BEFORE this post in this thread ...LOL hes to busy puffing out his intraweb chest a bit rather than "parroting" around safety info as to "irrelevant" ... you just hear a story of this happening on the last page from an MP member whose cam broke in half from this ... ;) |
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Jim Titt wrote: Send them back to the manufacturers for inspection?That doesn't seem very likely. |
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Eva is pregnant. Unreported failure? |
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Time for a NEW final update, after well over a year of use and abuse. |
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While any cam can have kinked cables, especially in a large fall The zeros also have a minimal metal sheave The wire on the aliens and zeros is also significantly more flexible ... Those cams are optimized for funky placements (as much as any cam can be) Of course there is a tradeoff im durability in the lobes (aliens) or the trigger wires (zeros) There aint no such thing as a free lunch There however have been quite a few stories of folks tweaking their x4s quite a bit for a new cam ;) |
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Shoo, |
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teece303 wrote:Shoo, In what way is the C4 easier to place than the X4 for you? I have the exact opposite reaction: I almost always pick the X4 over the C4 when they're both on my rack and fit the next placement. The narrower head of the X4 means it's more likey to fit, and placing them seems pretty much identical to me. I agree they are a bit delicate, but I still love mine. They go with me any time I'm placing gear.Good question. It has mostly to do with the stiffness of the stem and reliability of the trigger system. When I am trying to slot a cam into an odd placement, the stiffness of the c4 helps me push the head around whatever way I want, since the head is basically always exactly perpendicular to the stem. With the x4s, the head can get caught on small features more easily and rotate, which is at best annoying, and on a few occasions resulted in a "fuck it, moving on, and my second can deal with it" after it got stuck in a weird place. The x4s are just way more fiddly than the c4s. Obviously the much narrower head width opens up placement options, but I've rarely found that to be an issue in the .5 or above range. Plus, the tweaking issue makes the trigger action go all crappy, which makes placing annoying sometimes. |
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bearbreeder wrote:The zeros also have a minimal metal sheaveThat's an understatement. The zeros have no sections of rigid stem, unlike any other single stem cams in those sizes on the market. |
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Jake Jones wrote:Took short hard fall on .3 X4. Cam was easy to place. Cam held. Did not explode. Removed relatively easy. Cam is not disfigured. Will use again. That is all.This. I've taken lead falls on all the sizes except the .1 (shivers) and they feel bomber when in good rock and good placements. Not much more you can ask. I had a purple x4 pull, but that was just because the placement was extremely marginal. All in all, good cams. Bigger sizes are a bit floppy to handle, but I don't consider that a big issue. They supplement my WC heliums very well. |
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Jfaub wrote: This. I've taken lead falls on all the sizes except the .1 (shivers) and they feel bomber when in good rock and good placements. Not much more you can ask. I had a purple x4 pull, but that was just because the placement was extremely marginal. All in all, good cams. Bigger sizes are a bit floppy to handle, but I don't consider that a big issue. They supplement my WC heliums very well.I agree with both of you. They are good cams. I have also taken falls on all of mine except the .1 (which a friend "tested" for me). They work just fine. They are "good" cams, in that they function more or less as they should. It's not a question of whether they are good, it's a question of whether they are better than their main competition. I've come to the conclusion that they are not objectively better in an meaningful sense. It's down to tradeoffs. Edit: Also worth noting that I've had a few really marginal placements with x4s do something magical and hold (in one case entirely due to the dual stem cam stop thing for the large ones). I've had 2 placements rip, but again in marginal placement. My anecdotal evidence does not constitute proof of anything at all, and I have no clue how other cams in the same position would have done. Counterfactuals are important. Double edit: If I want to keep posting stuff, I should probably stop falling on all my gear. |
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ANY cam will work "good enough" in good placements in good rock ... 20 year old TCUs, rock empires, link cams, etc ...
the reason you pay $$$$ for new shiny cams when your old cams still work is for stuff that hopefully gives you a better chance you in not so good placements, especially microcams wild country cam book, zero wild country cam book, zero the zeros and aliens (and totems basic/standard) are proven performers in funky placements they can pull like any other cam in weird placements ... but your odds are probably a bit better ;) |
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For the record, I fell on a 0.1 x4 when a marginal nut above it ripped. It held. I'm sold. That's about as technical as my cam reviews get. |
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fell on a #.2 in a horizontal crack with the stem over the edge, no issues. |
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We need a 'block' button! |
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...and a 'wanker' button! |
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Scottmx426 wrote:...and a 'wanker' button!NICE! |
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I don't know if they've fixed the issue, but the X4 .3 and .4 that I just bought (made in '14) do not have the glue-retraction issues. I haven't climbed on them yet so I don't know how much is usable in reality, but it seemed like the range was a bit above average for the size (but I haven't climbed on aliens). |
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Jon Frisby wrote:I don't know if they've fixed the issue, but the X4 .3 and .4 that I just bought (made in '14) do not have the glue-retraction issues. I haven't climbed on them yet so I don't know how much is usable in reality, but it seemed like the range was a bit above average for the size (but I haven't climbed on aliens)..3 doesn't have the kevlar trigger wires, so it was never an issue for this piece. .4 was the worst in my opinion. Every one that I have seen recently still suffers from the problem. If you can post pics that would be helpful |
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WillamR wrote: .3 doesn't have the kevlar trigger wires, so it was never an issue for this piece. .4 was the worst in my opinion. Every one that I have seen recently still suffers from the problem. If you can post pics that would be helpfulOh duh that makes sense on the blue. I'll post one in my profile in a few minutes of the grey |