Is a bolt ladder C0 or A0?

So I always assumed a bolt ladder would be A0 because bolts aren't "clean." But a little research suggests that clean aid refers to any climb for which a hammer is not necessary for parties to ascend, and thus a bolt ladder is C0 since there is no hammering involved (after the initial installation of the bolts).

Can anyone direct me to a reliable source to resolve this question? Alternatively, is there a consensus on the issue?
Thanks,
Scott

yes and yes.

It was A0 for the first party. C0 for those that climb it later since they don't need a hammer. But, since a bolt is not clean, then it is always technically A0. But, since you don't need a hammer, it is C0. Since you will be using clean technique, i.e., leaving nothing behind, that makes it C0. But, since someone put a dirty bolt in, it will remain A0 forever. So, you see, it is really quite complicated. We could go 5 pages or so on this one.

climbing.about.com/od/cliim…

The author of this is also an accomplished climber and the author of the Arizona Falcon Climbing guide book. . .

From this and other websites A0 would be pulling on gear without using aiders, A1 or C1 would be using aiders and ascending a bolt ladder or solid crack that will most likely be easy to ascend.

Regardless of whether or not you call it clean, it's A1/C1, not zero, on a bolt ladder.

With a hammer.......A0
Sans hammer.........C0

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Here's how I've decided to think about it. While the "A" or the "C" designation does provide some indication as to how the first ascent was made, the ultimate purpose of the rating is to inform future climbers of whether or not a hammer is required to ascend the route. rockclimbing.com/Articles/I… (definitions of "aid climbing" and "clean") and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_c… and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloss… (definition of clean) and alpinist.com/p/climbing_not… (discussion of Aid Grades). Thus, any route for which a hammer is not a required piece of equipment for climbing is rated "C" regardless of the existence of bolts on the route.

As to the C0 v C1 issue, it appears to depend on whether the bolt ladder requires use of aiders. climbing.about.com/od/cliim… and bigwalls.net/climb/ratings.… and alpinist.com/p/climbing_not… . Thus, a relatively straightforward 3-bolt ladder that is done French Free without aiders would be C0, whereas a longer or more involved bolt ladder requiring aiders would be C1.

I'm glad that's settled!

Don't let all the freeclimbers A0ing their way up Royal Arches or Freeblast find out that they have to change their tick lists to say they were C0ing their way to the top.

for practical purposes, i think it is best to call it C0. the following parties won't (and shouldn't) need to bring a hammer.

In all my years of climbing I've never heard anyone use the term C0.

The correct term is French Free.

i think it would be best if someone just called it 12d or something already!

So wait, if I wanted to be like my idol Ken Nichols, and I climbed the bolt ladder, smashing the bolts with a hammer along the way, then it would be A0?

Matt Wilson wrote:So wait, if I wanted to be like my idol Ken Nichols, and I climbed the bolt ladder, smashing the bolts with a hammer along the way, then it would be A0?

Only if you smashed them behind you.
Where as if you broke them in front of you its ... A5.

Scott - I think part of the deal is that the A scale is decades old whereas the C scale was much more recently developed. So many old guidebooks refer to bolt ladders as A0 when most of us perhaps think of them as C0 in the more modern lingo. As others have noted, the C0 rating is likely more appropriate since the hammer stays at home.

Wally

rocknice2 wrote: Only if you smashed them behind you. Where as if you broke them in front of you its ... A5.

Ok what if I smashed them on rappel?

Not sure anyone is going to look at a route that's got an A0 rating attached to it and think they're going to need a hammer; they will generally equate that rating to pulling on gear (fixed or placed). Seeing a C0 rating would just be confusing, given what most people are used to.

Chris McNamara doesn't even differentiate between A0 and C0 in the Yosemite Big Wall guide; A versus C doesn't come into play until you get into A1/C1 and beyond.

Matt Wilson wrote:

"rocknice2 wrote:
Only if you smashed them behind you. Where as if you broke them in front of you its ... A5.

Ok what if I smashed them on rappel?"

I think that might be called 'rap-unbolting'.

caribouman1052 wrote: Matt Wilson wrote: "rocknice2 wrote: Only if you smashed them behind you. Where as if you broke them in front of you its ... A5. Ok what if I smashed them on rappel?" I think that might be called 'rap-unbolting'.

It would probably be called "stewardship"

It's all A1 until you fall...

You're over thinking it.

Locker wrote:"In all my years of climbing I've never heard anyone use the term C0. The correct term is French Free." C0/A0 = "French Free"? Help me to understand that one please... ???

It´s the (condescending) expression us Euro´s use to describe grabbing any fixed gear and yarding on it. The French used to regard it as part of "free climbing" as opposed to completely nailing a route.