Is this an unsafe practice? Non-locking biners on anchor...

I was climbing a multipitch route the other day with a new partner, where every anchor was bolted. For the anchor, I used an alpine draw (biners opposite and opposed on bolts) with a sliding x in the middle. On the x was normal atc guide in guide mode.

Upon seeing the anchor my partner insisted I use locking biners for the bolts. Is this neccesary?

I guess my rationale is lots of people top rope sport climbs with regular non locking biners. What do you think MP?

Does it make a difference if make the anchor with the rope clove hitched to non-lockers? (Less likely to slide out if biners accidentally open)

Lockers are safer but I don't normally use lockers on an anchor. I suppose depending on the anchor I may in some situations.

Lockers are fine there but are absolutely NOT required. Your partner needs to lighten up.

Are lockers safer at the bolt points of an anchor - yes. Is walking around with a bullet proof vest safer - yes. Are either absolutely required in their mentioned contexts - no.

Institutionally or if guiding I would and do use lockers at all fixed points on anchors - however I don't feel it would be negligent to use non lockers on an appropriately set up anchor. With personal climbing I usually use one locker and one non locker just because that's what I have on my setup.

My concerns with your anchor is the sliding X - even if you tie off overhands near each bolt point to actually make it redundant (which without those the classic sliding X is NOT redundant) you still have a huge risk of a long extension IF one bolt or point on the anchor fails (very unlikely but if we're talking about safety that's something that could at least possible happen). The tried and true equalized overhand/eight knotted anchor with a good ole' shelf and masterpoint is, in my mind, what you should always use. Simplest, fastest, safest (yes it doesn't equalize different directions of pull but you should build an appropriate single line of force into your anchor when you set/equalize it).

My 2 cents.

I generally use lockers at the anchors & anytime I toperope but wouldn't freak out if someone built an anchor with nonlocking biners....

Jake Jones wrote:If you build an anchor with gear, do you put lockers on the ends of your cams and passive gear? No. And if you do, it's likely a clusterfuck. That being said, if you have two bomber bolts, why did you set up a sliding X? Why not just use a double length runner and knot it in the direction of pull and belay off that? That's better practice IMHO. YMMV

My general rule of thumb is that I use non lockers when I am belaying from the top and lockers if I am setting a TR to belay from the bottom, since in the latter case, you are not able to monitor the anchor. That said, if I don't have lockers for a slingshot TR, I don't stress about it.

To echo everyone's sentiments I personally use lockers on anchors, but two opposed draws has pretty much been the standard for bolted anchors. I made up two locking draws that I use for sport, but using two draws is not a big deal.

Plus to illustrate the point on multip-pitch trad you don't have lockers on the anchor cams. Those are still your anchors right?

You said you have "biners opposite and opposed on bolts"... Meaning you have two non-lockers opposite and opposed on each bolt? If so, that is as safe or safer than a locker. I think it's fine to use non-lockers (one on each) on the bolts but you should always use a locker on your masterpoint where you attach your ATC guide.

A sliding x without limiter knots is redundant, in terms of one of your protection points failing- the knots just limit extension. Neither is redundant in terms of the sling if you use only one sling.

Also a sliding x is not what I'd choose at a bolted anchor. If I was concerned about the quality of the bolts enough to feel I needed to equalize the force as much as possible, I'd put more gear in or find a better place to anchor.

All that said, as climbing partners you have to be on the same page with safety practice and risk tolerances. Either your partner will be fine with your anchor set-up, or you will be willing to adjust it for his peace of mind, or you should find other partners to climb with.

I have never seen somebody use lockers on the bolt side of an anchor. Even when lockers are used in TR setups I only ever see them on the rope side. I think the possibility of two biners simultaneously unclipping themselves from their bolts while weighted and right in front of you to monitor is so close to zero that, for the sake of discussion, we might as well call it zero.

If your partner insisted you use lockers on the bolts but didn't insist on you changing that sliding X, they don't know as much as they think they know.

99% or the time, if your using slings or cord to build your anchor then non-lockers are fine for the bolt ends. If one magically comes unclipped then you still have the other one. As someone already said, every now and then the rock is weird and a locker helps keep the gate from getting pushed open. This is very rare though since most of the time you can just spin the carabiner around so that it sits better.

For me it has nothing to do with whether I'm guiding or recreating, top belay, or bottom, in all of those cases I need an anchor that won't fail. A single non-locker on each bolt provides all the security you need.

If you start using rope and clove hitches then I start using lockers more regularly. When loaded in multiple directions clove hitches can get a little weird sometimes. If I'm at all worried about that outside loop wandering up onto the gate then I use a locker.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the magic X, I don't think its as magic as most think. I'd personally just use a double length sling and tie a masterpoint. If you want adjustability then use a quad.

I rack my double length sling with a non-locker attached to it over my shoulder, so I clip the non-locker to one bolt and then either use another non-locker on the other bolt or a locker on the other bolt, probably a locker if I feel I can spare it. Tie an overhand into the sling to make it redundant. If you do the sliding X you need to use two slings to make it redundant, so I wouldn't use the sliding X here. If the bolted belay is more than just bolts (quick links or chains attached), I might be a little more nervous about the interaction of all those parts, so I would be more inclined to use at least one locker on one bolt, maybe two lockers.

Juan.... I like to use lockers on the bolts, esp if your going to go with a hanging stance and have others join you (what is now called "trad"). Its pretty EZ to ID the good places for the others to clip into... Just point out the locker and say "right there" .... I think all persons need to "lock" into the anchor.

If on bolts and your going to lower down (sport climbing) I just use draws on the bolts and lower. If you have lockers on the rope end you cant lock em down anyway cause you will hose the next leader...

Sliding X is a personal thing, I don't really like them, but that is just me.

I have one or two special draws with lockers on both ends, I call these draws Jesus Draws and use em where unclipping would mean death. Biners can unclip when they are right at your waist and your busy trying to hi-step or something...

And as all things in climbing no real hard and fast rules- except make it as bombproof as you can.

oh yea "guide mode.atc" sounds pretty cool, but please know how it works. I have some partners who are GUIDES and one time, while hanging in space after falling, when I needed to be lowered down about 20 feet so I could get back on the stone......I got the call from above "uh can you unweigh the rope?????"

have fun

You don't put lockers on the nuts and cams that build non-bolted anchors, so why use lockers on bolts? If you absolutely must use lockers for your biners they should be the twist and pull kind. Easy to open and keep moving.

Like another poster said, use a double length runner with a knot for the master point.

Magpie79 wrote:My general rule of thumb is that I use non lockers when I am belaying from the top and lockers if I am setting a TR to belay from the bottom, since in the latter case, you are not able to monitor the anchor. That said, if I don't have lockers for a slingshot TR, I don't stress about it.