Mountain Project Logo

Plastic vs Leather Boots

Original Post
William Kramer · · Kemmerer, WY · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 935

What are the pros and cons of each?

Martin le Roux · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 401

It depends what you mean by "plastic". Are you thinking of old-style plastic double boots (Koflach Arctis, Scarpa Inverno, Asolo AFS, etc)? Or the newer synthetic single boots (Scarpa Rebel Pro, etc)?

William Kramer · · Kemmerer, WY · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 935

Koflach Arctis, Asolo AFS, Scarpa Alpha, etc. as plastic.

I'm sure this has been brought up numerous times before, but opinions change, and was looking for the freshest take on them.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10
Plastics:
Pros: Warm and relatively cheap
Cons: Clunky as all-hell

Single leathers:
Pros: good dexterity and ankle flexion, lightweight, cheaper than double leathers
Cons: not as warm as double leathers or plastics

1.5 or Double leathers:

Pros: warm with surprising warmth to dexterity ratio
Cons: expensive

IMO, the remaining bastion of usefulness for plastics are high and cold mountaineering routes (e.g., Denali - although overboots would still be needed). However I think most are going with Spantiks/Scarpa 6000's now for routes like that.

You should spend some time looking through Dane's Cold Thistle blog.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

It's simple.. leather for waterfall ice and plastic for mountaineering.

Yes you can use one for the other. I get people do one day mountaineering routes in leather boots and ice climb in plastic boots. The plastic boot crowd's either cold like the elderly or has four pairs of boots for every condition. I'm guessing you're looking for your first pair of boots. Go to a reputable shop, tell the boot fitter what you're doing and he should fit you with boots that match the activity. Plus the fit should be on the money.

Don't get plastic boots unless you hear yourself saying often... "eeee I'm cold"

William Kramer · · Kemmerer, WY · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 935

Worried about the other way, having lived in this barren tundra of western Wyoming all my life, I'm worried about getting too hot and sweaty, followed by the then cold while standing still, such as belaying. Would something like the Scarpa Rebels or similar makes be better if that's the case?

Christopher.D.Thomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 150

It depends on how much suffering you are willing to take. I have single leathers and Spantiks. Here in colorado it seldom gets cold enough for the spantiks but they are nice and toasty when climbing. The single leathers are good for day-tripping, but I wouldn't want them for multi-day winter trips because they soak and freeze. At least with a double boot on an overnighter you can put the liners in your sleeping bag to dry them out.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
William Kramer wrote:Worried about the other way, having lived in this barren tundra of western Wyoming all my life, I'm worried about getting too hot and sweaty, followed by the then cold while standing still, such as belaying. Would something like the Scarpa Rebels or similar makes be better if that's the case?
I have a pair of Scarpa Rebels and LOVE them but.. The Rebels don't keep my feet warm when it gets below 15F. Others have said a higher number. I have four pairs of boots. The Rebels for cocky leads on hero vertcal ice. The Rebels are the scalpel. Precise and lignt. The Baturas when it gets too cold to wear the Rebels. A perfect all around boot thats like a fighting knife. Very warm and performs about as well as the Rebels. Spantiks for when I'm out swinging at brittle bulletproof 3s praying I make it to the anchor. Spantiks are overkill for most days. I wear those only when it's below 0F. Even then sometimes I don't bring out the buck knife because of weight and clunkyness. Nothing beats the Spantiks if you're gangroping when it's -10 out.

I don't remember ever sweating too much and in turn making my feet cold in any boot. Try wearing wool socks. That helps keep my feet warm if wet.

Part of ice climbing is figuring out your system. What gear keeps you the right temperature when you're moving. What keeps you right when you're sittting still. I would look for boots that are for a wide range of temperatures. Rebels and Spantiks are great choices for your second pair of boots. I would recommend Scarpa Mount Blancs, La Sportiva Nepals or Batura 2.0s and Lowa Weisshorns. Any of those would be a good all around first ice climbing boot. Remember to get fitted by someone at a quality shop. Another idea is to attend an Ice Fest. You can demo lots of different boots for the day to see which one fits the best. The fit is the most important part.
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Bill Kirby wrote: It's simple.. leather for waterfall ice and plastic for mountaineering. Yes you can use one for the other. I get people do one day mountaineering routes in leather boots and ice climb in plastic boots. The plastic boot crowd's either cold like the elderly or has four pairs of boots for every condition. I'm guessing you're looking for your first pair of boots. Go to a reputable shop, tell the boot fitter what you're doing and he should fit you with boots that match the activity. Plus the fit should be on the money. Don't get plastic boots unless you hear yourself saying often... "eeee I'm cold"
I think you may be using Single/Double interchangeably with Leather/Plastic. Plastic boots are all but dead in North America.
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Some thoughts on warm feet:

If you want warm feet, you need vapor barrier liners. Period.

They are the only way of guaranteeing that the insulation of any boot, single or double, will stay dry. If you don't mind a little slippage of your foot inside the boot (say, when ski touring) bread bags will work. If non-slippage is a requirement (soloing ice) a neoprene liner sock can work.

Chouinard's set up for ice climbing (pre plastic boot era) was vapor barrier, single boot, supergaiter (insulated gaiter). He thought that combo gave the dexterity of a single with the insulation of a double. I've tried it, and I agree. My approach for winter time work (bursts of heavy activity followed by near stillness) was vapor barrier, plastic boot, supergaiter. Another part of the system is side zips on your bibs, so you can vent that sweat.

In all the time I spent in Maine winters, I only got cold feet once - no vapor barriers, too much coffee, and boots laced too tight.

Just a note: All the plastic boots are double boots. If it has a removable liner boot, it's a double boot. (That said, the old dark green Scarpas with the rollers on the lacing ties may have been a plastic single boot)

Ray said "Plastic boots are all but dead in North America". From what I've seen, he's correct. That said, since '81, I have seen one pair of leather double boots. They are extremely rare, or at least they were. Plastic double boots still have a place in very cold conditions (or for people with chronically chilly feet), or at altitude.

Historically, single leathers were outmoded by double leathers were outmoded by plastic are being outmoded by single "leathers". Go figure.

Another thought - no coffee, or nicotine on climbing days. They are both capillary constrictors, reducing circulation to your fingers and toes. Not to mention coffee making your hands and feet sweat more, getting your boot insulation wet. I haven't run into that problem with black tea.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I see what you mean about mixing up words. I still think the OP gets I'm saying.

I still see Koflach Arctis, La Sportiva Baruntse and Lowa Ciretta for sale. I saw a few people in the NE wearing them last season. Kinda makes me wonder why considering the current offerings of double boots on the market that aren't boat anchors.

caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Why are people using clunkier double boots when the latest offerings aren't clunky? Money, fit and warmth. If you find a double plastic that fits really well, it will keep your feet warm, it will climb well... and if you don't have a ton of money, you keep it.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Bill Kirby wrote: I see what you mean about mixing up words. I still think the OP gets I'm saying. I still see Koflach Arctis, La Sportiva Baruntse and Lowa Ciretta for sale. I saw a few people in the NE wearing them last season. Kinda makes me wonder why considering the current offerings of double boots on the market that aren't boat anchors.
Probably the same reason you still see people wearing gators.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
caribouman1052 wrote:Why are people using clunkier double boots when the latest offerings aren't clunky? Money, fit and warmth. If you find a double plastic that fits really well, it will keep your feet warm, it will climb well... and if you don't have a ton of money, you keep it.
I'm guessing you rock plastic? I have to respecfully disagree with your comments.
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Well, I did rock plastic. I don't have the best circulation and I like my toes, and I didn't have a ton of money. So I didn't have much choice.

Which comments do you disagree with?

Tristan Baldwin · · Amherst, NH · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 120

I have a pair of yellow Koflachs and a pair of Scarpa Rebel Ultras...they serve different purposes, and they serve them well. I have hiked miles on dry ground with my plastic Koflachs and not been unhappy, and have climbed hard (for me)mixed in them. Unless you are as fit as a sloth, the weight won't be an issue. I've also run in them going car-to-car on Mt Washington in Feb in a hair under 4 hours without really pushing hard. If they fit, they are not clunky. That said, I have used rock shoes that are less sensitive than my Rebel Ultras. I'm pretty sure they are lighter than my La Sportiva approach shoes! In any case, I would happily hike days on end on dry ground with them and would rather them if I was at my limit on ice/mixed. If it is really cold, I want my Koflachs. Don't knock the boots...see what I did there...until you try them. Plastic boots have NOT been replaced by leather/fabric doubles, or at least not yet.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Tristan Baldwin wrote:Plastic boots have NOT been replaced by leather/fabric doubles, or at least not yet.
Maybe for you but the market sure says different. Scarpa is down to a single model and Koflack (distributed by Scarpa) is down to two models. The largest consumer of plastic boots are rental firms (guides, gear shops, etc). The biggest/only reason anyone still buys plastic boots is because of fleet durability. If cost were the main driver for retail sales of boots retailers wouldn't have kicked plastic boots out on their proverbial ear.
William Kramer · · Kemmerer, WY · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 935

I have been reading reviews on boots, and a little confused. Most of the reviews for La Sportiva claim that they fit narrow feet better than the other brands, Scarpa is the same, which is true? I have very narrow feet, thus why I'm curious. As a side note, I will say I have been through numerous pairs of climbing shoes, and the best fitting I have had so far have been a pair of Scarpa Instincts, is that sizing similar to their boot line?

caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Somewhat depends on the model of boot - I had 2 pairs of Sportiva Makalus that fit me quite well (C forefoot, B heel), while the Sportiva Silver Bullets were wide enough in the heels that I got an annoying amount of lift. Alongside the Silver Bullets I have a pair of Scarpa Charmoz, which fit really well except my third and fourth toes. Scarpas seem a little pointy compared to Sportiva.

The sales lady at REI told me that generally, Scarpas are a bit narrower than Sportivas, and that Scarpas will work better for someone with a high arch.

If you have to buy boots at a distance, you might want to try Mountain Tools - they have (had? I just tried to bring up their website, and get a 403 error) a shoe/boot fitting thing where you pattern your feet, mail them the pattern, and they get back to you with a list of the best options for your feet.

When I buy at a distance, I try to get a photo of the sole; if it's the same shape as my foot, there is a pretty good chance there wont be any hot spots around the edge.

The heel bone/ Achilles relationship is important too. For some people, the silhouette is a right angle from the floor, straight up. For others, the heel bone stick out behind the Achilles. If the boot silhouette matches your heel / Achilles silhouette, you'll get less heel lift and blistering. My experience is the Sportiva Nepal Evo works better for my friend with a straight heel silhouette, and the Scarpa Charmoz works better for me. He found the Nepal Evo heels narrower than the Silver Bullet heels.

A third part of the fit is the volume; whether your foot is high arched and therefore high volume. I find this a lot harder to figure out from a picture. You can get molded insoles etc, to take up excess volume, and IMO filling excess volume hugely improves the performance. I use a Sorbothane insole with a carbon fiber arch. It's the highest arch support I could find, and seems to give a little spring to my step on hard ground.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
caribouman1052 wrote: Which comments do you disagree with?
That plastic boots climb well and fit well. I respectfully disagreed with you instead of running my mouth because I've never tried on or climbed with plastic double boots that fit or climbed well. That doesn't mean you haven't found something.

William, You're not going to know what fits until spend some time trying on boots!
Christopher.D.Thomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 150
William Kramer wrote:I have been reading reviews on boots, and a little confused. Most of the reviews for La Sportiva claim that they fit narrow feet better than the other brands, Scarpa is the same, which is true? I have very narrow feet, thus why I'm curious. As a side note, I will say I have been through numerous pairs of climbing shoes, and the best fitting I have had so far have been a pair of Scarpa Instincts, is that sizing similar to their boot line?
I also have a narrow foot, and so I use La Sportiva Spantiks for my high-altitude and extreme cold trips (0 degrees or colder). They are super-light, which is why they cost so much, but they were invaluable on Denali and Rainier in winter. ems.com/product/index.jsp?p…

My shoulder season boot is the La Sportiva Trango Alps GTX - probably the best all-around boot I have ever owned. livefortheoutdoors.com/Gear…

I also use the La Sportiva Boulder X Approach shoes when more Class IV/Low 5 scrambling is required: campsaver.com/boulder-x-app…
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
Post a Reply to "Plastic vs Leather Boots"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.