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Ice screw recommendations

Original Post
Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

I'm new to ice and have searched through most of the archives both here and on the Colorado forum and I feel pretty sorted so far as gear goes other than some information on ice screws.

What is the recommended number of screws and what lengths a beginner should have for setting up top rope?

I'll be staying in Colorado, climbing in mostly the front range and at Ouray. Having read about pull out tests (Leuben, How to Ice Climb) it would seem that purely from a strength standpoint longer is best. However I have read that shorter lengths such as 19cm and 16cm are the more workhorse screws.

Thanks

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492

Mostly 16s, and a few 13s. You won't need anything shorter - if the ice isn't at least 13cm thick, you have no business leading it. Add a couple 19s or 22s if you belay off screws or need to drill threads.

lynchdogger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 0

Agree with above good advice. You will propably want 8-10 screws maybe 12 at most - with two 19cm's. Practice ice bouldering and placing screws just off the ground and practice your v threads. Have fun be safe.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Testing has shown that the strength in ice screws comes from the number of threads engaged, not the overall depth of the screw tube. 13cm and 16cm BD screws have the exact same number of threads and have virtually the same pullout strengths.

My "standard" ice rack is 2x 10cm; 6x 13cm, 3x 16cm, and 1x 19cm.

You won't be disappointed by any of the newest generation BD, Petzl, or Grivel screws.

Wyatt H · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 6

CAMP, DMM, and Omega Pacific also make very good ice screws.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I would get 30M of static before I would trust screws. There's usually something to tie off to at the top of single pitch routes that can be TRed.

Be sure to cover the screws of a TR anchor with snow so they don't melt out.

Xam · · Boulder, Co · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 76
Shepido wrote: What is the recommended number of screws and what lengths a beginner should have for setting up top rope?
While I enjoyed the lead rack discussion, I found it interesting that it took 5 posts for someone to address the OPs actual question about screws for TR anchors. And I agree with Kirby...if you can't find bomber natural TR anchors in CO with 100 feet of static or cord, you are doing it wrong. Although a couple of screws (16s are nice) do help for redirects.
climbing coastie · · Wasilla, AK · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 95

If you can't find natural anchors as mentioned above I'd go with one 22cm screw and make v-treads for your anchors. Make two and equalize them. If done correctly you could hang a truck off of them. They also don't melt out as quick as screws do.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Toproping off an ice screw anchor is always a testy subject. Screws melt out. In bright sunshine I've followed pitches where the lead protection screws have melted out significantly, enough that they probably wouldn't hold a fall, by the time I got up to them (maybe 20 minutes after being placed?)

As said before - better off using long lengths of static line or webbing to sling trees and build your masterpoint that way.

If you must use screws, pile a bunch of snow on top of the hangers to insulate from the radiant heat of the sun. If you have older generation black-anodized screw hangers, paint the hangers white. You'll need a 20' cordellette to connect them - you want the screws farther apart (2'-3' minimum) than you might place rock gear.

There are bolted anchors and chains at the top of almost every climb in the Ice Park. There are only limited toproping opportunities in the mountains surrounding Ouray.

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
Xam wrote: While I enjoyed the lead rack discussion, I found it interesting that it took 5 posts for someone to address the OPs actual question about screws for TR anchors. And I agree with Kirby...if you can't find bomber natural TR anchors in CO with 100 feet of static or cord, you are doing it wrong. Although a couple of screws (16s are nice) do help for redirects.
Well at least the first 3 were definitely talking about the lead context. This sort of behavior is pretty typical here - people are so eager to talk about - ME ME ME - that they pay scant attention to the actual question.
Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

Thanks for the relies. I've got some 16s on order. I'll pick up some cord as well it is surely cheaper than screws. I've been looking through most of the routes on the site and it looks like precious few (70 out of 619) are available for top rope. However, looking at the list of routes, I've heard of people setting up top rope on some of them even though they are not listed as such. Does there have to be chains for this site to consider a route 'top ropable' vs slings around trees and rock horns etc?

Gretchen 81 · · Longview, WA · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 60

If you're talking about the Ouray Ice Park, there are plenty of climbs without bolts/chain that you can top rope. You use trees. Most of these are at the far end of the park. I'd recommend getting a 30' length of webbing...I use it all the time in the park. Many of the anchors, whether trees or bolts are quite far back, and I'd prefer to use one long length than several piece put together. I've never had to use screws for anchors in the ice park.

Xam · · Boulder, Co · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 76
Shepido wrote:Does there have to be chains for this site to consider a route 'top ropable' vs slings around trees and rock horns etc?
It depends on whether the route submitter labeled the route as a TR and what their personal definition of a TR route is but I think most people would say a TR route has easy access to the top without climbing it...the anchor does not matter and can be natural (slings on trees or boulders) or gear or bolts.

Virtually everything in the Ouray ice park is a TR except the lead only area.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I think the best thing to do would be to post up a thread on the Colorado section asking what ice routes can accessed by walking to the top. Be careful walking around up top setting the anchor. Any route can be top roped even multipitch classics if you climb up on lead to the top of the first pitch and set up an anchor.

You need routes you can get to the top so you don't have to lead. You also need a 100 feet of static rope. Sounds like you don't have enough experience to evaluate the quality of ice so I wouldn't use screws for anything but directionals. Static ropes cost about $100 but using it will be way safer and redundant. You could use a cordlette but then you're only tied to one tree. I don't think that's a good idea for you either.

Do you have any experience ice or rock climbing? No big deal.. just trying to gauge what advice you need.

Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

I just started leading at the gym a few weeks ago. My climbing partner is much more experienced than me and he was always on the sharp end, I just follow and clean the route. I'm pretty green with respect to anchors and placing pro. I've got no ice climbing experience at all. I'm going to take a guided class here on ice in the next few months. I would like to go out and start building on what I learned right afterwards.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

You're headed the right way if you have a mentor. Classes are good too.

I would suggest two books, Will Gadd's Ice and mixed climbing and Craig Luebben's Rock climbing mastering the basics. There's good information on setting up a top rope in Craigs book and everything you need to know about ice in Will's.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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