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Climbing gyms located in low-income neighborhoods

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

I know of one non-profit, Chicago Adventure Therapy, that tries to involve at-risk youths by engaging them in multiple activities.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

My friend joe runs a charity to help disadvantaged kids climb ar normal gyms

I would think that it would be hard for a gym whose main demographic is low income folks to make money

vrcg.ca/climb-and-conquer/



;)
Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15
mustardtiger wrote:The answer is no. In black low income areas the kids look up to basketball and football players. They don't look up to climbers. They have zero exposure to the sport and their friends are the same way. The white low income areas have a similiar situation. They just do not have any exposure to it and often view it as a hippy sport.
They have little exposure now, but kids these days are growing up with streaming media on smart phones (even low income kids) and guys like Honnold are breaking into the mainstream audience. When the kids I work with find out I rock climb, there is a hint of understanding. Ten years ago, it would've been blank stares, but now we shouldn't assume that kids from a low income area aren't exposed to the world beyond it.

And slowly there seems to be more climbers of color who can serve as role models. There are plenty of Asian climbers now, as well as Megan Martin (though I don't know what her ethnicity is), and I'm also reminded of Lucho Rivera

This story says "The best way for Lucho Rivera to save himself from a life of gang violence in San Francisco’s Mission District was through the risk and adventure of rock climbing." You gotta think there are more Luchos out there who would gravitate to a neighborhood bouldering gym.
Peter Scott · · Pequot Lakes, MN · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 42

Legion, I don't think you want to hear what most of the people have to say. You asked for opinions on sustainability and demand of your idea. Most have given it a no then given reasons why. You then go onto discount their opinion. Why bother asking the question at all. I hope that is not how you deal with the kids you work with. Again, ask the kids what would be best for them. Sounds like climbing has been great for you. That doesn't mean it will be great for the kids.

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155
Peter L Scott wrote:Legion, I don't think you want to hear what most of the people have to say. You asked for opinions on sustainability and demand of your idea. Most have given it a no then given reasons why. You then go onto discount their opinion. Why bother asking the question at all. I hope that is not how you deal with the kids you work with. Again, ask the kids what would be best for them. Sounds like climbing has been great for you. That doesn't mean it will be great for the kids.
this +1
Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15
Peter L Scott wrote:Legion, I don't think you want to hear what most of the people have to say. You asked for opinions on sustainability and demand of your idea. Most have given it a no then given reasons why. You then go onto discount their opinion.
No, no, I truly appreciate the opinions and I'm just thinking out loud. Apologies for sounding difficult. Just wanted to throw different thoughts out there to see if anything sticks. I am sincere in asking for opinions, so I'll try to respond in a better fashion. Thanks for understanding, these topics are not easy to discuss.

I think a lot of times we're too quick to assume something won't work. These days there are vegetable gardens growing in the inner city, African-Americans from the hood winning gold medals in speed skating, and other examples of "that could never happen".

An inner city bouldering gym def would not have worked 10 years ago. Probably not now. Maybe in another 10 years? We can dream, right?!
Tony Monbetsu · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 616

Kids don't have climbers to look up to, but curiosity is powerful. And one of the advantages of bouldering in particular is that it looks impressive and cool to completely uninitiated people. The athletic moves and powerful physiques of skilled boulderers are, in my opinion, a strong attraction for beginners. and for kids, climbing walls just look like fun- all the colorful holds just beg to be climbed on.

Low-income climbing gyms are, almost by definition, not going to be terribly profitable- but is anybody really building gyms because they want to get rich?

Jacob Smith · · Seattle, WA · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 230
Legion wrote: Maybe in another 10 years? We can dream, right?!
Right about the time Kai Lightner and Ashima Shiraishi will be redefining the sport...

I don't think anyone really knows where the proliferation of urban climbing gyms is taking us, in ten years ghetto kids could be dominating the entire thing.
Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

You can become a millionaire through football and basketball. Climbing, not so much. Guy who gets the most TV airtime, lives in his van.

Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15
Tony Monbetsu wrote:Kids don't have climbers to look up to, but curiosity is powerful.
That's a good way to put it.

Jacob Smith wrote:I don't think anyone really knows where the proliferation of urban climbing gyms is taking us, in ten years ghetto kids could be dominating the entire thing.
Wouldn't that be interesting. How about someone like kevin durant, with his wingspan, getting on a route!! 2 moves to top out a typical bouldering route?!

Another thought... occurred to me that maybe skateboarding is a close parallel that provides some good history to learn from. There are skateparks even in the hood these days and plenty of skaters of all colors now. Something about it has drawn in kids, regardless of income or color, and I wonder if bouldering could have the same effect.
Kari Post · · Keene, NH · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 81

I run the climbing program at a YMCA. We don't specifically serve at-risk or low-income youth, but I have worked for numerous non-profits that focused on introducing those populations to rock climbing through outdoor education and adventure programs (rock climbing was usually just one component of a program, with the main focus usually being on team building and often with low and high ropes challenge courses).

I would see a lot of challenges with introducing a rock gym in a very low income area. It would most likely operate at a financial loss, and you'd need a generous amount of grants or angels to cover the overhead (space, installment of a climbing structure, gear, and insurance are all expensive). Most programs I know of that serve at-risk youth are heavily subsidized. At our own YMCA, I rely heavily on volunteers to run or assist with most of the climbing programs we offer. I suspect it would be harder to find and train qualified staff in a low-income area where few people have been introduced to climbing before.

In NH we have a non-profit called the Kismet Rock Foundation which is super cool. "Kismet Rock Foundation enhances the physical, intellectual and emotional development of well-functioning but economically disadvantaged children by providing access to the immense value of a comprehensive and multi-dimensional education in technical rock climbing." You might want to check out their site to see a model of a really cool program that introduces low-income youth to climbing. kismetrockfoundation.org/ Note that Kismet primarily introduces kids to outdoor climbing and is not affiliated with any gym as far as I know.

Derek Jf · · Northeast · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 335

The gym I climb at is in the city, smack in between two projects. owner lets youth/teens climb free on fri nights and has memberships for em for just $15

My local spot in Mass

solid crew there

Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15

Thanks for the input. Lots of different "biz models" out there. Glad to see the industry is doing something, anything. Still feel like we are in the midst of a lot of evolution in the climbing gym industry.

John Wilder, thanks for your thoughts but also for all the RR beta you provide on MP as I scope out RR as my new playground!

mustardtiger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 20

I think the reason skateboarding got popular in low income areas is because low income neighborhoods have some of the best terrain for skating. A lot of guys head into cities to skate. It's sort of like how climbers go to the mountains to climb. Also the lifestyle of a skater tends to cross paths when low income urban kids. Yes climbers deffinAtly have a reputation for being low income, however most climbers live the dirt bag life because they choose too. Most aren't born into poverty and most aren't nearly as deviant as the urban low income kids.

In short climbing and thug life are two polar opposite lifestyles that rarely come into contact with each other. If you want to introduce this sport to a new demograph then I would aim for the holler rats.

When I lived in eastern kentucky there was only a handful of people that had ever been climbing that grew up there. These kids spent their entire lives living an hour and a half away from one of the largest climbing areas in the world and had no clue. They all already love camping in the woods and hiking. They have next to nothing as far as sports goes. They have rock all around them. From where I lived the closest climbing gym was 2 hours away. If someone went to the small college town of pikeville kentucky and built a small gym you would see an explosion in the climbing community.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
Legion wrote: ... These days there are vegetable gardens growing in the inner city, African-Americans from the hood winning gold medals in speed skating...
you're not saying shani davis is from the hood are you? might be getting a bit carried away here.
Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15
slim wrote: you're not saying shani davis is from the hood are you? might be getting a bit carried away here.
Off topic, but yes. Maybe he's not the best example, but that's who came to mind. Anyway, this is from his official website...

"Raised by his mother on the city's south side, he started roller-skating at local rinks at age two... As there were - and still are - no speed skating clubs in inner city Chicago, at age 10 Shani and his mother moved to the far north side of the city to be closer to the Evanston rink."
James Hicks · · Fruita, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 131

The new Movement gym in Denver is located very near, if not within, some mixed income neighborhoods. Downtown Denver is a lot different than it used to be of course, so I would be very hesitant to call it ghetto. Maybe 10 years ago, but not now. But the major problem for getting kids from low income families into climbing would be the $17/day climbing pass IMO. The movement gym in Denver will see the same type of people that already go to Earthtreks, RnJ, etc...

Thrillseakers has been down on Broadway as long as I can remember, and well before everything got Hipsterfied. And I don't recall that really making too big of a difference in the make up of the climbing demographic.The Denver Boulder Club is just across the highway from downtown and I would imagine that the make up of those who frequent it can be easily assumed as well.

There is a lot of sociological and socio-economic reasons that will almost always inhibit the growth of climbing among certain populations.

James Hicks · · Fruita, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 131
Derek Jf wrote:The gym I climb at is in the city, smack in between two projects. owner lets youth/teens climb free on fri nights and has memberships for em for just $15 My local spot in Mass solid crew there
that is awesome :)
Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15

I appreciate people chiming in and keeping this thread going. Some of you are probably thinking, just shut up, build one, and see what happens! Unfortunately I think that really is the only way to find out and I just don't have the guts to try it. So here I am just talking about it :)

Every neighborhood will be different, but maybe another approach is to think about some common "success factors" that would make this work...

1. Bouldering only.
2. Small space: Maybe the size of a typical McDonalds. A neighborhood hangout, not a destination for the entire city.
3. Home woody grade: Not that they deserve less but I've built sizable walls before and professional wall-builders would be overkill for this.
4. Donated holds: I know personally this quickly lightens the wallet. With so many hold manufacturers, this seems feasible.
5. High foot traffic: Unlike suburban areas where kids are driven everywhere, foot/bike traffic is very common in inner cities.
6. Goal is to break-even: Just need to cover minimum costs. Maybe subsidized. Inherently, rent should be very manageable.
7. Volunteer staff: To minimize costs, though job-creation would be cool too.
8. Cheap membership
9. Marketing, marketing, marketing
10. And just a cool vibe.

Sorry. Intent is not to put up a biz plan here. Just thought it might be interesting to post up.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
Legion wrote: Off topic, but yes. Maybe he's not the best example, but that's who came to mind. Anyway, this is from his official website... "Raised by his mother on the city's south side, he started roller-skating at local rinks at age two... As there were - and still are - no speed skating clubs in inner city Chicago, at age 10 Shani and his mother moved to the far north side of the city to be closer to the Evanston rink."
calling hyde park 'the hood' is a bit of a stretch. it should also be noted that there aren't too many speed skating clubs anywhere.... so yeah, not really an example.

i don't see why people feel a need to force feed the whole outdoor experience thing to other folks. seems kind of silly. i think most folks like to go climbing to get away from the urban jungle. probably the last thing they are hoping for is hoods in the woods to roll into their crag.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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