can I have my portal edge back?

Is there anything else to learn?

Should we pull this thread back up after a year to see where everyone still stands?

By-the-way, I would suggest golf instead of tennis. At least you can drink and cuss without anyone giving a second notice. Be ready to sacrifice some gear to the golf gods though.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Things I learned today: It's booty unless it exceeds an arbitrary value.

Depends on what kind of booty. Is it:

Look at that booty. Show me the booty.
Gimme the booty. I want the booty.
Back up tha booty. I need tha booty.
I like the booty. Oh, what a booty.
Shakin' that booty. I saw tha booty.
I want the booty. Lord, what a booty.
Bring on tha booty. Give up tha booty.
Lovin' tha booty. Round booty.
Down for tha booty. I want tha booty.
Huntin' tha booty. Chasin' tha booty.
Casing tha booty. Gettin' tha booty.
Beautiful booty. Smokin' booty.
Talk to tha booty. More booty.
Fine booty.

All about tha booty. Big ol' booty.
Serious booty. Amazin' booty.
I'll take tha booty. Where is tha booty?
Stare at tha booty. Walk in tha booty.
Touchin' tha booty. Whose got tha booty?
Grabbin' tha booty. Rubbin' tha booty.
Lovin' tha booty. Huggin' tha booty.
Kissin' tha booty. Holdin' tha booty.
Watchin' tha booty. Kickin' tha bo
Sleepin' booty. Screamin' booty.
Harder booty. Softer booty.
Sweeter booty. Sour booty.
Nude booty. Used booty.
Whose booty? Sista's booty.
Yo momma's booty. Cookin' booty.
Mean booty. Good luck with tha booty.
Farm booty. Home booty.
Road booty. Found booty.
Covered booty. Bare booty.
Sweated booty. Patted that booty. <----not quite sure about patted that
Bad booty. Sadder booty.
Wide booty. Wider booty.
Double wide booty

Live for tha booty. Yell at tha booty.
Suein' tha booty. Scared of tha booty.
Expensive booty. Cheap booty.
Discount booty. Rented booty.
Leashed booty. Sellin' tha booty.
Workin' booty. Easy booty.
Sleezy booty. Greasy booty.
Need a lot more booty.
Wet booty. Dry booty.
I hope that one's my booty.
Pretty booty. Pity booty.
Little bitty booty. Beautiful booty.
Curessin' tha booty. Dissin' tha booty.
Missin' tha booty. Messin' with tha booty.
Ooooh what a wonderful booty.
Powerful booty. Findin' tha booty.
Gimme tha booty. Wake up booty.
Breakfast booty. Lunch booty.
Supper booty. Dinner booty.
Expensive booty. Cheap booty.
Buffet booty. Hot booty.
Cold booty. Take-out booty.
Delivery booty. All booty.

Paul-B wrote: The problem with this comparison is subtle, but there are two issues here. You are pretending as if people on here are defending whoever took the gear, which I have not seen. No one knows the circumstances of how the gear was taken, what was done with it, etc. You and everyone else seems to have fabricated a story that fits your view of the situation and decided to defend or attack based on that fabricated story. You do not know that "another player took it and kept it rather than giving to lost and found." You do not even know if "another player took it." We know its gone. That's all we know. In a year, who knows what happened. Strong winds, rock slide, avalanche, whatever. No one can honestly say they know what happened to it. The other issue here is whether the fellow deserves his gear back. As others pointed out, even if someone did pick this gear up, figure out where the legal place to return this gear to is (I am assuming the ranger station), there is almost no chance this gear would still be around for Chris to pick up. Every lost and found has a limitation- I do not know what the rangers is- but its less than a year. So no matter what was done with that gear, Chris would likely not be getting back. Legal, illegal, moral, immoral- whatever. Those are the facts. Like them or not it does not matter. I think that is the point that I (and I think most posters) are making. After a year, you really have no "moral" ground to stand on. Whatever was done with the gear- it is no longer yours. Of course that does not mean he does not have the right to ask.... just slim chances. But it makes for an amusing thread!

Theft happened within 9 weeks, was it? But it took Chris a year to come to the Internet to talk about it?

Based on the description only valuable hardware was taken so it wasn't blown off by the wind or eaten by some critter.

One can always count on Mountain Project to remind us that there are a lot of clibmers (just like there are a lot of people) who have the attitudes of self-centered pricks. Fortunately, actual climbing routinely reminds that there are a lot of climbers who are really friendly, awesome, thoughtful, caring, generous people.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Things I learned today: If I leave my property unattended on public land it is your responsibility.

No, you could leave it alone.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:If you haul it down, you have to bring it to Lost and found.

Or you could leave it alone.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:If you don't take it all, you're a litter bug.

no, just a thief.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:It's booty unless it exceeds an arbitrary value.

Pretty much. If the haul bag had 50 lbs of human feces I bet it would still be there today.

If everyone valued trash as much as a set of cams then El Cap and Half Dome would be free of litter.

Shit was only taken because it had value. Whoever took it didn't do it to "clean up" the mountain.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:If you found it, you're a bad person for not hauling it down for me.

Or you could leave it alone.

Ray, how much trash do you haul out from your local crag or a big wall?

Have you ever gone camping or alpine cragging and left stuff stashed somewhere for a night? If it was gone the next day it wouldn't be theft right? If you came back to your campsite and found your valuables inside the tent gone it wouldn't be theft right? Just someone cleaning up your mess for you? What about food inside a bear box with no name or date? Free food, right?

O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote: Ray, how much trash do you haul out from your local crag or a big wall? Have you ever gone camping or alpine cragging and left stuff stashed somewhere for a night? If it was gone the next day it wouldn't be theft right? If you came back to your campsite and found your valuables inside the tent gone it wouldn't be theft right? Just someone cleaning up your mess for you? What about food inside a bear box with no name or date? Free food, right?

I throw trash away as I see it. I hauled two wag bags off of the grand last month that someone dropped. I've never stashed gear, it is the epitome of lazy.

The rest of your examples don't apply and you're trying to stretch the circumstances to fit your argument. Standing campsites aren't abandoned and bear boxes are generally in reserved campsites. However, I have seen stuff left in bear boxes of vacant sites and it is either thrown away, held by the ranger, or kept by the finding party.

It's hard for me to believe there are so many people here that condone theft. That's what this is. It doesn't mean that OP was smart leaving all that shit there. If someone left their car parked in a bad neighborhood unlocked with the keys in it (regardless of length of time), they'd be negligent, sure, but taking it would still be theft.

Should OP have done something, anything, to try to get the gear back in a more reasonable timeframe than a year? Absolutely. It's hard to believe someone was that attached to that gear if they left it there that long. Still doesn't excuse just taking it, though.

This thread is becoming boring. There's a difference between condoning theft and understanding why a guy no longer has his abandoned stuff. Nuance is not something white knights with ten gallon white hats seem to be willing to understand.

This has got to be one of the most fascinating threads on a climbing site in some time. After reading through some of the latest comments, I was reminded of this video from a few years back -

http://vimeo.com/18267416

Obviously there are a lot of differences here but I think it makes for an interesting comparison.

kevin deweese wrote:This thread is becoming boring. There's a difference between condoning theft and understanding why a guy no longer has his abandoned stuff. Nuance is not something white knights with ten gallon white hats seem to be as to understand.

Right, but I don't think anyone is arguing that OP shouldn't have left his stuff there for as long as he did. It seems like there's two groups of people: those who bash OP for being negligent by not even attempting to get the gear back until a year after he left it there (which he was) and those bashing the person(s) who took the gear for theft (which it was).

He should've expected that his gear would be gone if he waited a year to get it. It would be nice if we could leave our shit where we please without fear of someone taking it (LNT not withstanding), but that's not the world we live in. OP should know that, given a long enough timeframe, there was a decent chance that someone with fewer scruples would happen upon the gear. But it still requires someone willing to commit theft. There's blame on both sides. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not defending OP here, but it does seem that several people on this board have a mentality that if someone leaves something somewhere for long enough, it's fair game. It's not. That's still theft. If you think it's been abandoned, there are proper legal channels for handling that, channels that don't seem to have been taken in this case.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: I've never stashed gear, it is the epitome of lazy.

Have you done much route development? I would be willing to bet you've climbed routes established by folks who had a gear stash.

Your absolutist opinions in this thread are the epitome of funny.

Nick Stayner wrote: Have you done much route development? I would be willing to bet you've climbed routes established by folks who had a gear stash. Your absolutist opinions in this thread are the epitome of funny.

+1

Ray Pinpillage wrote: I throw trash away as I see it. I hauled two wag bags off of the grand last month that someone dropped. I've never stashed gear, it is the epitome of lazy. The rest of your examples don't apply and you're trying to stretch the circumstances to fit your argument. Standing campsites aren't abandoned and bear boxes are generally in reserved campsites. However, I have seen stuff left in bear boxes of vacant sites and it is either thrown away, held by the ranger, or kept by the finding party.

Really? So you have never left anything at the base of a multipitch route that you didn't need on the climb? No approach shoes, no backpacks, extra water, etc?

And I was talking about bear boxes in shared areas, not at campsites where there is a checkout date.

In my mind there is big difference of finding a stuck cam "booty" compared to stealing a haul bag full of cams and other gear. Sure, it should not have been left there for such a long time, but sometimes these things happen.

Say you're just fixed the first 2 or three pitches of a route on El Cap. You're soloing so you pre-stage your gear at the top of your fixed lines. You can't leave it at the bottom. You take a rest day the following day and then when you jug up your gear has been stolen, say two haul bags with food, gear, food, etc.

Would that be considered booty or stealing?

How about pre-staging on Heart or Mammoth ledges? Would that be a booty find or stealing gear.

I'm kind of surprised by the lack of sympathy for the owner of the gear.

Nick Stayner wrote: Have you done much route development? I would be willing to bet you've climbed routes established by folks who had a gear stash. Your absolutist opinions in this thread are the epitome of funny.

Is this thread about stolen stashed gear used for route development.

O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote: Really? So you have never left anything at the base of a multipitch route that you didn't need on the climb? No approach shoes, no backpacks, extra water, etc? And I was talking about bear boxes in shared areas, not at campsites where there is a checkout date.

I left my house this morning just sitting out! OMG, I'm such a hypocrite!

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Is this thread about stolen stashed gear used for route development.

It doesn't matter what the intended purpose of the stashed gear is because you don't know the intention when you come across it, so it's a moot point.

Ray Pinpillage your comments have all been unnecessary and unwarranted. I fear for those who climb with you because you seem to lack considerable judgement.

I once waited over an hour in a parking lot in eldo for Chris to show up. We'd arranged to go climbing from the partners section of MP. I called him after a half hour and he said he'd be right there. After an hour I left.

I'd like my hour back.

O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote: It doesn't matter what the intended purpose of the stashed gear is because you don't know the intention when you come across it, so it's a moot point.

Sure it matters, where was the OP's gear left? Was it in a development area? How long was it left? Could it be assumed that it was abandoned based on the time it was left? I'd agree with you if this was over night but that doesn't sound like the case.