Tooth of Time, Cimarron NM

Hi, wondering if anyone has any thoughts, info/beta on climbing this crag near Cimarron. Looks appealing, but seems to be on private boyscout ranch.

Totally locked down. They fire staff at the camp caught on the cliff.

Head over here Questa Dome instead to stay outta trouble.

Seems silly to "close" a mountain, but you must understand the private land manager's priorities. Running the largest youth camp in the world does not afford extra staff to conduct hazardous high-angle rescues, and liability in our society makes public access to private land a headache for the owners of the camp.

What poster above said. It's been a very long time since it was open. I climbed it when I was a Scout though - 1999 or 2000?

Jon H wrote: I climbed it when I was a Scout though - 1999 or 2000?

Yup, hiked to the top. I now see how my statement could have been misleading.

Thanks guys, confirmed my suspicions.

The Dome is by far the best rock in Taos (10 min from me), but, as anyone who has climbed there knows, it is a demanding, heady crag and I have not been in that kind of shape in a while. Looking for new terrain, I suppose, or stop bitching about basalt. What I really need to do is get over my hump and start working the Dome again.

There is always Tres Piedras...

Drive a bit more to mannassa, casual from Taos and quite few routes up to 60M.

Hey John,

Do you have any more detailed beta on the climbing near Mannassa?

Jason

It's on MP under San Luis Valley. Most of the routes are not listed yet...Maybe we can get together after my knee surgery....

Thanks John.

A couple of years ago I met Bob R. at Shelf Road who told me about the place. I went to check it out on the way home, but didn't climb. The routes that were established looked pretty good, and there was some potential for more. There wasn't any information available on MP at the time either.

Good luck on the knee, and definitely look me up when you are healed!

Jason Y.

Since no one answered the original question I will say there is a 4 pitch line near the left side of Tooth of Time ... mostly 5.9 crack until the last pitch which is 5.6ish slab ... rock is as good as it looks with lots of potential right of the route just described ... what a shame crags like this are anymore only for looking at ... but under the current administration, brace for more....

I happen to have the first  (and later, the second) ascent of the standard route on the Tooth of Time in 1972. I was the head rock climber at Cimarroncito at Philmont Scout Ranch and I did it with Rick Barrett and Randy Wright, two of my fellow employees at Cito. It was 4 pitches, with the interesting part being a 20 ft 'tunnel' that we climbed through... it was about 2 to 3 ft square, and a perfect vertical tunnel that came out on a ledge, as I recall. I rated the route 5.8+, and it was rather tough in spots, especially wearing Robbins boots. The bad part of the climb was the rocks that scouts would throw off the summit, down the face. One of the standard things for some of the scout troops to do while at their stay in Philmont was to hike up the Tooth of Time ridge to the summit... perhaps 50 scouts a day. They would invariably want to toss rocks off the summit, not realizing that there were climbers below. The following 1973 season I returned as an employee at Cito and did the second ascent. This time though, I enlisted the assistance of Mark Motes and Sue Van Gorp to hike to the summit and guard it from rock throwing scouts. They met us at the summit with Kentucky Fried Chicken and Coors beer, the end to a terrific day. On both occasions, we had the permission of Philmont, and they even sent a staff photographer out to snap some pictures. Sounds like they take a dim view of climbing it nowadays, but I would do it in the off season if I wanted to do it again. It is a very pleasant, moderate route with good exposure and, of course the tunnel. I can't remember why Motes didn't climb with us that day... he later turned into a superb climber (North American Wall, etc), retired from the Forest Service as a smoke jumper, and now does long trips on a BMW GS. Seems like a lot of us old climbers become long distance motorcycle riders (I now ride a Moto Guzzi Stelvio). I wouldn't hesitate to do it during April/May or Sept/Oct... Nobody is there and the weather is beautiful. The route is obvious, just slightly left of the center of the face.   Lee Davis,  Belen, NM

I can't remember why Motes didn't climb with us that day ... 

Lee - Not to worry, Motes got his ascent July 1980 when six of us repeated your line in 3 ropes of 2 ... in fact, as I recall Mark acted as our diplomatic liaison, so to speak, with the powers that be at Philmont ... at least I think it was your route - the only obvious line on the left side of the face as described above ... I don't recall that tunnel but we agreed it was 5.8 overall, save for a 5.10 roof on P1 ... 

If you don't remember the tunnel then you must have avoided it to the right, for it was very distinctive and unforgettable. Yeah, I figure Mark did the route, for he was a superb climber. Remembering Mark Motes and Sue Van Gorp  brings back a lot of memories. I talked to Mark on the phone a few months ago, and one of these days we will hook up for a motorcycle ride. As for Sue, I married her. Should have married Mark. . 

Lee - yeah, as soon as I read that I figured we'd bypassed the 'tunnel' to the right ... this was not my first time climbing with Mark Motes, earlier we'd done the RNWF of Half Dome together - a good, strong partner ... he teamed with Paul Horak on the ToT, my partner was Mark Leonard & the third team was Mike Head & a guy they called 'Little John' ... I once had some photos of that climb but lost them all ... instead let me post this topo I drew of it not long after, for historical purposes & to see how much it jibes with your memory of the route ...

My memory of the route consists of the tunnel and the Kentucky fried chicken, and the drive to Red River afterwards for steaks. Ahhh... those were the days. 

It sounds as if Lee Davis figured out why BSA won't let climbers on Tooth of Time.  Climbing while kids are throwing rocks is a bad combination.  The boys are there only in summer.  I wonder if they would allow climbing in late spring or early fall.  About fifteen years ago I was out there helping to set up a cooperative project with BLM.  A Texan rode by on a horse with a rifle in his scabbard.  When I asked what that was about the BSA rep. said he was a big contributor and he was going bear hunting.  Trad climbing is non invasive.  Perhaps some kind of day fee, like $20.

What kind of rack is needed,  can you protect with good placements, and is there runout?