More anchor discussion.

So I'm curious to know how the majority of you are setting up your belay anchors. Since there are pros and cons to each method (cordelette, sliding x, direct tie-in), I'd love to hear what you all are doing. Thanks. And, yes, I've read what John Long has written on the subject.

Answer: It depends.

Also, this should keep you busy for a while: google.com/search?q=build+a…

This could easily end in a slanging fest.....

But my 2c..

-Using the climbing rope is fast, light and very safe. But many people find it too hard/confusing.
-Cordalettes are fine. Though I prefer to use the climbing rope.
-Don't use a sliding-x for anchors. Don't. Use a couple slings or knot a single one.
-John Long was wrong in his conclusions about shock loading. (His 'quad' is unnecessary complication.)

I´m just curious why anyone wants to know how the majority set up anchors, is it some kind of popularity contest?
How you join all the bits together is effectively irrelevant, the quality of the pieces is important.

Jim Titt wrote:I´m just curious why anyone wants to know how the majority set up anchors, is it some kind of popularity contest?

Those who have not completely developed their own techniques or analysis will use what the majority do as a guide.

Jim Titt wrote:How you join all the bits together is effectively irrelevant, the quality of the pieces is important.

But joining them together is still necessary so "a" technique is still relevant.

(I assuming that Ryan Nevius is a curious novice to the sport.)

I use the rope 100% of the time if I'm swinging leads. If it's block leading, I will use a double length nylon runner, knots can safely be tied into nylon, to construct my anchor.

Bolted, intermediate belay:
Double length runner clipped in at both bolts, equalized and knotted figure eight.
Tie in to master point with a clove from my climbing rope, belay second in guide mode off the shelf.
Bolted, last belay/rap:
Same as above but tie in with my PAS to anchor or build anchor with PAS.
Untie and start feeding rope through rap rings (tying off loops or stacking on ledge so they don't hang if over route), tying off center so it stays on the anchor.
Gear belay:
Cordelette, tie in with clove to masterpoint.
Belay second from shelf (if possible) or masterpoint in guide mode.

Thanks for the responses. I'm asking the question because I'm trying to sort-of re-formulate my own method. I made the mistake 10-15 years ago of allowing life to get in the way of hobbies and I'm just recently getting back into climbing. My oldest son is now 9 and we enjoy TR'ing at the local crag. It's ignited my interest to get back to doing multi-pitch trad. However, now that I'm older, and less risk tolerant, I've come to the conclusion that they way i used to do things wasn't as safe as I'd like to be now. So, just trying to figure out the best method for me so that i can get out and practice. i appreciate the responses.

In response to patto's post, why are you saying don't use a sliding X? Other than the potential extending if a piece was to pull from the rock, is there some other reason to avoid it?

Jjensen wrote:So, just trying to figure out the best method for me so that i can get out and practice. i appreciate the responses.

The responses have been kinda brief and cagey because this topic is heavily discussed and argued. So many are loathe to start another round of it.

Jjensen wrote:In response to patto's post, why are you saying don't use a sliding X? Other than the potential extending if a piece was to pull from the rock

No. That is the main reason. A sliding-x mostly works fine, but there are better ways. Most importantly equalisation is not the game, non extension and redundancy is.

There are other threads discussing all this. I'm sure somebody can provide a links. Otherwise google sliding-x and you get plenty of discussion.

Interesting. John Long seems to regard equalization as a more important consideration then the non-extending. I guess this is what I was looking for in asking the question.

Anyway, I'd wondered if this topic was a bit overdone on this board. But i do appreciate the responses.

I've always used the climbing rope.

Cordolettes are fine but mine always seem to get tangled up with my gear.

I recently got a Metolius Equilizer, which is really just an overpriced sling with a little bag. The bag is nice to carry it in without tangling & has a diagram that shows how to equalize 2 & 3 point anchors (if you really need that).
Actually works pretty well but is expensive. Not at all necessary but I do like it better than a cordolette.

Re: Equalisation vs Extension.
John Long conducted flawed experiments on which he based his conclusions. Extension should be avoided. Even equalisation, except with absolutely marginal protection, is much less important.


I think this thread should now be closed and made a permanent reference for all anchor threads. ;-)

Using to rope means ... What? I know what I think it means (clove hitches on pieces, generally), but what does it mean to you?

Because specialized bunny ears knots or whatever can also just turn the climbing rope into a cordelette, but I assume that's *not* what is generally meant by "using the rope".

teece303 wrote:Using to rope means ... What? I know what I think it means (clove hitches on pieces, generally), but what does it mean to you? Because specialized bunny ears knots or whatever can also just turn the climbing rope into a cordelette, but I assume that's *not* what is generally meant by "using the rope".

I'm not sure if that was specifically directed or just general, but beerbreader says it best.

mountainproject.com/v/multi…

Thanks, Scott! That's an awesome thread... for several reasons.

I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I generally use cloves when I use the rope, but I often use slings instead, because anchoring with the rope seems to confuse people I climb with. They find it weird. I guess it's become old school.

I have climbed with LARGO, John Long for those who dont know... before he started writting how to books....

Never once was a cordelette used, ever. We didn't know what that was. Just grab a hunk of the rope your on, tie a fig eight, and clip into the piece he wanted you to be on. If your feeling a little nervous pull out a sling and double up to something else.

simple.... no

Meg Ryan wrote: So, you're saying that your SOP is to belay off a single piece of pro? And you would suggest that others, including noobs, do the same? Great advice.

Well, at least he seems to be saying it WAS. He said "before John started writing books"; John was first published in 1988. Climbing was a little more wild thirty or forty years ago, and it's also possible that single piece was a piton.