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Installation of "hammer-in" glue-in bolts, have you done it?

JohnWesely Wesely · · Lander · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 585
John Byrnes wrote: Do you mean plastic grocery bags used as rags?
Yep.
James Garrett · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2005 · Points: 5,461

I like the Wave Climb Tech bolts as well, though I do have more experience with DMM, Petzl, Hilti, and Fixe Glue-Ins. But the Wave is evolving into the latest standard except for salt water and extreme limestone corrosive environments, so it is good this topic came up here.

One recent observation and / or problem I have encountered is a deformation of the white plastic spring loaded keeper bar on the installation tool for the Wave bolt. I have no idea how it even occurred, but the end result is risking having the bolt drop prematurely out of its perch after not being seated securely. In my experience as it may have been for you, this is during the one time in the whole process where working efficiently is key to not having to use another nozzle and much more glue while filling multiple holes with the same nozzle. Otherwise, a slow and deliberate methodology yields the best results in proper glue in placement.

It is definitely NOT convenient when the install tool needs to be manipulated manually or the white keeper plastic bar is sticky and not sliding smoothly. I think I may have just purchased a defunct install tool?? So beware as it can really throw a glitch into the procedure. I may have just ended up with a lemon, and I am in the process of getting it replaced, but the present model seems to be a candidate for an improved design.
Thanks.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
John Byrnes wrote: I've heard several people say they had to hammer hard. I thought Wavebolts were supposed to hold body-weight without glue, so it amazes me you can twist them by hand...??
There have been many reversions of the Wave-Bolt, some with much tighter tolerances than others. The first generation bolts were way off. I couldn't get them in with a sledgehammer.
ottice webb · · Stanton KY · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 5

Me and Sweeny poked holes all winter in the Red just rebolting a bunch of old Porter routes, we got the tool also, but we dont want our wave bolt touching much of our sandstone so we wallow just a little andsurround that bolt with glue.The way its designed it cant NOT be surrounded.

ottice webb · · Stanton KY · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 5

Hung on Twinkie 40 mins after gluing new shuts,we put sand on our glue too.... Then they make us use 2 part epoxy in a tube,knead it,plug the old hole,that gets sand too,textbook boys....

Sam Lightner, Jr. · · Lander, WY · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,732

This is obviously a pretty good group of glue bolters. I/we have a good relationship with Climbtech and appreciate their help in rebolting efforts. One thing I would like to see is the Wavebolt become less shiny. I know they wanted a certain finish to it for long life, but It's a bit overdone... you can see those things from 5 miles away in the right sunlight. I THINK they are going to do this, but if each of us mentioned it to them, they for sure would. It's just good for longterm access... land managers listen when the muggles come in and complain about "climber-junk on the walls." As long as we are putting in a smaller but stronger built, it might as well be a little less obvious in sun light. Let them know. Again, I think they are going to make a change, but the sooner the better.

Sam Lightner, Jr. · · Lander, WY · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,732

I'm sure your right John... I just missed it. Remember when we had day-glow hangers in the late 80's? Shiny is worse than dayglow.

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392
Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote: Remember when we had day-glow hangers in the late 80's? Shiny is worse than dayglow.
I dunno Sam, I have old nightmares of not being able to find the next bolt! Shiny bolts disappear on shiny granite in Tuolumne, RMNP, the SPlatte, etc.

Already 30' out, I've climbed 20' past the next bolt, only to finally see it below and to the side of me. I say we bring back day-glow for granite slabs ;-)
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
John Byrnes wrote: I dunno Sam, I have old nightmares of not being able to find the next bolt! Shiny bolts disappear on shiny granite in Tuolumne, RMNP, the SPlatte, etc. Already 30' out, I've climbed 20' past the next bolt, only to finally see it below and to the side of me. I say we bring back day-glow for granite slabs ;-)
I´m with you there! Wandering around on some granite thing in Arizona searching for the next bolt thinking "f#ck my eyes are getting bad" and then the first ascencionist calling up from the belay below saying "maybe camo bolts aren´t so good up here". We never found it.
Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

Ha ha - in the early days of the ASCA, when we were accused of chopping as often as retrobolting, I had a guy get in my face about how we just "chopped Stoner's Highway!"

We didn't of course. The first bolt is about 35' up, and the old doubled rusty 1/4" bolts were super easy to see. The newly replaced bolts were just tough to spot, plain stainless steel is near-perfect camouflage for some granite!

On the Wave bolts, yes I hope the new ones are not super shiny. Chris sent me a couple of the newer Climbtech hangers a few months back and they are way better than the mirror-like finish of the originals. I actually used a few of the super shiny Climbtech hangers on a slab route at Courtright where the original bolts were nearly impossible to spot…but that only works some places, there'd be no point in Tuolumne with all the angular knobs glinting in the sun!

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

The old waves (pre CT) were all over the map. I resorted to a 9/16 bit and still had to hammer the last bit in. Jim's bolts were always consistent to be friction fit only near the very end. He's so swamped I've never been able to replenish in the US

Chris has told me the new CT waves are much more consistent in their hole fit so as soon as I'm done with the last of Jims bolts I'll give the new CT waves a run

One of the best things I've done to make glue ins less of a mess is to build a spooge bag holster suggested on Jim's site. This makes drips, the initial flow from a new tube etc much easier to deal with and give me a place to stuff the rags I've used to clean up the hole post install. I just use Costco t shirt rags.

The CT wave bolt tool is pretty slick as it help you get a really square strike on the bolt and drive it directly into the hole. Sometimes using just a hammer the force is deflected and you end up tweaking the bolt making for a pita install. I use the BD wall hammer (stainless) so I'm not as worried about corrosion nicks etc

I use the 10oz coaxial tubes from Epcon (a7) and a caulk gun. Usually takes 2-3 pumps to get enough in the hole but as others have said, getting the goldilocks ammount in takes a while to dial in

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392

Okay, I learned some stuff.

!) Obviously, double-stemmed bolts require more glue. I may need to order more.

2) Plastic garbage bags make good rags (would never have thought of that).

3) The latest generation of Wave Bolts fit in the hole better than the old ones.

4) Having the metal contact the rock is a weak-point of the design, from a corrosion standpoint, since it creates a crevice right at the surface. Time will tell if this is a significant problem. I have held a Tortuga (top of thread) in place using a quarter-inch piece of soft vinyl tubing placed in the bottom of the hole and then injecting the glue. The bolt shaft could then be forced into the tubing creating an expansion sleeve. Perhaps someday we'll see bolts that use some glue-encased method so there's no crevice at the surface.

5) I like Mattm's "corrosion nicks" term. I carry a 20-ounce framing hammer and don't want to have to carry another hammer/mallet as some of the approaches are beyond brutal. I'm thinking of making a hammer cover, maybe leather, rubber, etc? Do they make such a thing?

I still don't know why several routes I've seen have ugly placements. My best guess is air-bubbles in the glue bursting as the bolt is hammered in.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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