Need help Trad climbing using "Monkey Fist" knots.

Hell, if you are looking for cost savings you don't even have to use nylon rope for pro. Hemp would work OK. Although you better be on a dynamic rope.

If you're gonna sling hardware store nuts, grind out the threads first...

If you really want to go cheap, I hear from a certain old climber in my life that loose nuts can be found along railroad tracks...

I met a guy from Germany this summer who used and showed me the whole constricting rope ball thing. I thought he was crazy but that ball of yarn worked.

It sounded like alot of Germans use monkey fists. I remember something about it works well in sandstone or something. .

Find the guru named Matthew Makangay in the mountains of north eastern ohio. Consult him about using your harness as a cam...you can even take his trad 101 class at certain gyms in the area.

Bill Kirby wrote:It sounded like alot of Germans use monkey fists. I remember something about it works well in sandstone or something. .

I could believe that. Soft rock needs different pro; cams can pulverize soft rock, and of course they aren't going to stay put when the rock has turned to dust.

The chalk cliffs of course are even worse, and are protected with long spikes...

epictv.com/media/podcast/ma…

I've climbed using the monkey fist knots when I lived in Germany. Make several different sizes and use a long wooden spoon type of device to really shove the knot in the crack. They are very hard to place and jamming them in the crack with the wooden spoon/stick is very challenging. Go buy a set of nuts for 90 bucks. Trust me climbing on the knots is scary as hell. The only reason we used them was because several areas in Germany won't allow you to use gear. Several areas also don't allow chalk. Good luck and climb on routes several grades lower before you feel comfortable placing them.

Crack Attack wrote:I've top-roped 22 times this past year and feel ready to take on the challenges that traditional climbing offers. However, I am broke so buying any of those cam devices is off the table. A guy at my local gym told me the best way to trad climb on a budget whilst preserving the integrity of the rock is to use monkey fist knots as protection while climbing. I have started making monkey fists out of various sized rope and am hoping i'll have enough to do some 5.11-5.12 multi-pitch in a couple weeks. If you guys have any suggestions regarding monkey fist placement, how many monkey fists you use, etc. please let me know. I'm looking to absorb some good information from you veteran climbers out there. -Chaz Sochen

personally, i think some webbing and some stones (chock stones) are ideal. chossy cliffs ofter the most options to rig a chockstone.

Crack Attack wrote:I've top-roped 22 times this past year and feel ready to take on the challenges that traditional climbing offers. However, I am broke so buying any of those cam devices is off the table. A guy at my local gym told me the best way to trad climb on a budget whilst preserving the integrity of the rock is to use monkey fist knots as protection while climbing. I have started making monkey fists out of various sized rope and am hoping i'll have enough to do some 5.11-5.12 multi-pitch in a couple weeks. If you guys have any suggestions regarding monkey fist placement, how many monkey fists you use, etc. please let me know. I'm looking to absorb some good information from you veteran climbers out there. -Chaz Sochen

Great troll

will ar wrote: Only really in areas where the local ethics dictate that you don't use metal pro. Not that knots can't work, but modern gear is better in all aspects except cost and maybe weight. I have yet to meet someone who didn't use hexes because they were "unsafe," most climbers prefer cams because they are easier to place and more versatile. I guess if you're pushing your limits on terrain that doesn't eat up passive gear hexes could be less safe.

not that i've ever climbed in Scotland, but it seems cutting edge climbers on curtting edge routes still use hexes. not only are they safe, but sometimes they are safer (as in no hex, no gear).

i hate(d) hexes but have been forcing myself to use them this summer (after mostly sitting in my gear bin for a decade) for icy cracks where cams won't work.

Obvious troll is obvious. Still, fun thread.

The area that keeps getting mentioned in Germany is the Elbsandsteingebirge or Elb, eastern German border and into the Czech Republic. No metal, no chalk, shoes are accepted but still bad form. Many routes have 2 grades, one for the route and one for the jump to the next tower. You rap off giant iron rings that look like they came off a castle and the rock is like climbing on kitty litter. Can't wait to go back!

Placing knots takes some work as has already been stated, and there is no way in hell I would use them unless I had too. But they can still be pretty bomber.

Here's my Germany rack along with my spatel (stick) which was a gift from Berndt Arnold.

Germany Elb rack

ol ken Nichols open a mp profile?

Travis Spaulding wrote:No metal, no chalk, shoes are accepted but still bad form.

Why do you have metal carabiners in your photo? Such bad form there.

When you say shoes are bad form, does that mean people climb barefoot? Or just in something with much harder rubber, like hiking or mountaineering boots.

I know Viper, right? I couldn't figure out the right knot to tie the knot to the rope.

And yeah, to be "truly" in style there, many climbers still climb barefoot.

I love to climb barefoot, i think it makes some routes easier because I can crimp with my toes. I know of one V5 problem I was able to climb easier barefoot than with climbing shoes on. I generally don't lead hard stuff barefoot because sweaty toes are never fun to smear with.

youtube.com/watch?v=QQstfpi…

Brady3 wrote:I know OP is trolling, but I think this does bring out an interesting issue. Why do some people have such an aversion to using knots as protection? This is a very real thing that is still practiced. And I view this as similar to the aversion of hexes in the days of cams, I have met people that would never use a hex because they are "unsafe." I still argue that cams are not inherently safer, you can still find a fantastic spot to place a cam and place it poorly such that it is unsafe, but some people think that because they put a cam in then they are safe. Even still there are some places where a hex could actually be safer than a cam, (and places where a cam is safer than a hex) and I'm sure there are times that a knot is better than a stopper. Yet people scoff at anyone carrying hexes, probably knots too, at most climbing areas in the US (that I have been to). Why is that? And maybe I just need to meet better people to climb with.

Hexes are rock solid on big constrictions, where placing a cam would be a VERY bad idea because the lobes would be uneven. Do these same people give you crap about using nuts?? They work on the same principles (although hexes are actually slightly more bomber because they can also apply a camming action). That being said, a solid cam placement is better than a solid hex placement because it's multidirectional, although hexes don't walk...

T Roper wrote: The true CT way is to top rope the line 222 times, then put a bolt or two in and lead it, then chop it. thats trad. Now back to the OP, monkey fists are good but slinging chunks of wood and rock to use as stoppers is better.

Or lead it on hooks with duct tape keeping them in place!

You wrote CHOP, you have a big misunderstanding of what is going on here. There is NO CHOPPING! It's just hammer them over and flatten them into the rock and leave them there. After all don't forget, hes just defending the beauty of the natural rock... Someone has to!

Oh yeah and was there a Reel Rock Film Tour with a young Alex Honnold leading on monkey fists and rope knots?!

The main issue when using monkey fists as pro is that you waste the rest of the animal. Its very unethical to kill a monkey just for his/her fists. At least you can use all 4 feet, but u might want to think about using a monkey that has a tail too, think about it, 4 fists, tail for a sling.