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Climbing Van

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jTaylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 50

A van is essentially gear, right?

I'm in the market in the near future for a van. I think the time has come to make the full commitment and take the leap away from years of Sedans.

What i'm curious about, is simply the basics (and what ever tips anyone has) when it comes to buying a van.

-Is there a crowd favorite amongst climbers? The Ford E150 seems pretty ideal to me, especially if they make em with AWD...

-is 5k-10k enough to get something reliable? What are most people dropping on a van now a days? This is probably one of the biggest questions to me when it comes to a vehicle. Gotta be reliable, especially if I am going to have ALL my stuff in it and want to feel comfortable driving it where ever I may feel.

-Do people with van's deal with break in's often at trail heads, or do they not attract criminals as much as other cars may from anyone's experience? It's hard not to think of this when you have all your possessions in a small space being left at desolate trail heads for hours or days at a time.

-If you keep all your food in there so frequently (especially if you have a fridge), how bad are your chances of trouble with the bears during stays in Yosemite? Anyone have any little stories or experience? I feel paranoid simply with my regular car cleaned out... a van I feel would make things that much riskier...

-Gas. Diesel, natural gas, regular? What do you look for when buying a van?

-Is there any point in getting a standard transmission van? I've drove standards my whole life, I feel like a van is the only time i'd make an acception and get an auto though... maybe i shouldn't say that too soon though?

-miles. Seems like they are built to last. Should I be concerned with a van with 100k+ miles, or is this somewhat regular?

-conversion expenses.... Roughly how much do people drop on the regular to invest in their new home on wheels? I feel a solar setup would be a must with a few extra things like cabinets.

any info is greatly appreciated!

jTaylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 50

I can multitask pretty damn well with a stickshift. It's all in the knees! :)

Mike Cara · · Hendersonville, NC · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 21

Do everything you can to find a manual. You asked about AWD, so chances are you'll be stuck in the mud or snow at some point. How are you going to "rock" that thing out of there with an automatic? Same goes for when you're in the steep, going up or down, you need to be able to down or up shift on demand. And the biggest reason...the pop start. You'll be living out of this van. Honestly, the chances of you leaving something on that'll drain the battery are pretty high (especially when first getting everything set up). I'd love to hear a rebuttal to this, but I can't figure out any reason why anyone would ever consider an automatic.

vincent L. · · Redwood City · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 560

I see a Syncro in your future ... If you got the coin.

Mike Cara · · Hendersonville, NC · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 21
caughtinside wrote:Rebuttal? Good luck finding a manual transmission van.
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/611139116/overview/

Boom!
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
Mike Caracciolo wrote:Do everything you can to find a manual. You asked about AWD, so chances are you'll be stuck in the mud or snow at some point. How are you going to "rock" that thing out of there with an automatic? Same goes for when you're in the steep, going up or down, you need to be able to down or up shift on demand. And the biggest reason...the pop start. You'll be living out of this van. Honestly, the chances of you leaving something on that'll drain the battery are pretty high (especially when first getting everything set up). I'd love to hear a rebuttal to this, but I can't figure out any reason why anyone would ever consider an automatic.
Don't get stuck in the first place, most automatics have some sort of semi-manual gear selection, and a battery jump starter is $50. I'm definitely a fan of manual transmissions, but for a climbing van that's probably going to spend 95% of it's life on the highway, likely with traffic here and there, I'd rather stay with an automatic.

I have a 97 Dodge Ram 2500 Van. It's been super reliable for me, but it's only got 65k on the odo and I maintain it well, too. I paid $2k for it when I bought it 3 years ago with 42k on the odo. It's a conversion van, which seem to resell for less than plain old cargo vans from what I've seen. I've never needed AWD, but I also don't usually drive much in crappy conditions. I've never had a break-in. Diesel might get better gas mileage, but they're more expensive to maintain. I can squeeze 18mpg if I keep it under 65mph (5.2L V8). My buddy had a big 4wd Sportsmobile and it got about 11-12mpg.

As for conversion expense, it's up to what you want to put in it. A solar setup will cost somewhere in the $300-$800 range depending on quality and battery size. I splurged and bought a 50qt ARB fridge for mine, which was $900, but totally worth it. You're only limited by your imagination and your checkbook.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

I would not keep food in your van in Yosemite. There are a million bear boxes everywhere, use them. If a ranger finds you left food in your car he is going to bust your face in, those guys dont fuck around. I have lived in Yosmeite for many months and I just kept my food at Corry Village. There are tons of boxes there. I would eat breakfast and dinner right on top of the bear boxes. It was easy.

I would go with something that gets good MPG, which is not going to be AWD and it's likely a manual. AWD is really not necessary. I have spent over 24 months on the road living in my Jetta and only once did I want something a bit more beefy, and in that case I just caught a ride with someone else. There is more than enough climbing to last 100 lifetimes that can be accessed in a Prius. Do the math on the fuel economy. Figure out how much you plan to drive and then run the numbers. It's not rocket science. I drive a ton when I am on a trip as I cant stand to be in one area more than a month, and so 20,000 miles in one full climbing trip is not unusual for me. I have saved thousands upon thousands living in my diesel Jetta compared to a van because of the amount of driving I do.

If you are worried about your crap in your van, get renters insurance. It's cheap and it will cover your stuff (be sure to get replacement value insurance). I pay like $300 a year for $10k in coverage through USAA.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

If I was going to go the van route, I would probably keep it usable for passengers and then just take out the back seats for longer trips. In that case, the Toyota Siennas and Honda Odysseys appeal. My friend and I road tripped in a Sienna for a week over summer with a futon mattress in the back and it was really excellent. It handled some rough roads to campsites fine, was quiet and nice on the highway, and we both really wanted to take it to J-tree but some dufus rear ended the thing on 24 and totalled it.

Jesse Spiegel · · Boulder CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 40

I have lived in and owned 4 vans all of which I converted. I think you can get a really good not too expensive automatic that will last for at least 3 years for $3,500 or less. I like the Aerostar van the Astro van and the Previa. You definitely want to make sure the transmission is in really good conditions. I like the space that you get inside the Aerostar in the Astro van. However the previa last forever.

I'm going to be selling my currentt vans this month. Its a previa, kind of ugly, but super sound mechanically. I'd say about 150,000 miles left in her. It's got a bed with gear and kitchen storage that pull out from the trunk, a closet with sliding doors. Space for storing 2 coolers. If you're intrested private message me. If your looking to do your own converstion here are some pics of my last van to give you some ideas. No pictures at the moment of my previa.

Good luck! Van life is the good life!

Outside aerostar

Bed closet book shelf aerostar

Kitchen gear storage aerostar. Coleman 2 burner stove fits perfectly where whisper light is sitting

Bed folds up into a couch and 2 coolers and 8 gallon water fit under couch

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

If I had to buy a dedicated roadtrip vehicle, I'd get a fleet vehicle that's been converted to CNG. Many vans and f150's have this. Fleets tend to sell right at about 100k so you should have decent life left in it, especially if the motorpool did it's job.

Natural gas is cheaper and cleaner. Fueling up is a pain in the ass but it's getting easier.

Regardless of fuel type, in this day and age, it would be foolish to purchase a vehicle that costs more than $4 per 20 miles. (I didn't say MPG because CNG doesn't convert that easily to gallons and diesel is more expensive than unleaded, so a dollars per mile analysis makes more sense). No full size vans other than low profile unloaded Sprinters fulfill this requirement.

Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155
nicelegs wrote:CNG... Fueling up is a pain in the ass but it's getting easier.
I think this is a MUCH bigger problem than you're making it seem. For example, from my quick search I wasn't able to find a single CNG station north of Cheyenne along I-25. With Ten Sleep being 300+ miles from Cheyenne, the only way you could make that trip with a CNG vehicle would be if you had a ~700 mile range, which is very unlikely, especially given that CNG vehicles generally have a smaller range than gasoline vehicles. I'd be willing to guess that maintenance costs on a CNG vehicle may be more costly, and if you get stuck with a problem in some small town it may not even be possible to find somebody to work on it and/or parts.

nicelegs wrote:Regardless of fuel type, in this day and age, it would be foolish to purchase a vehicle that costs more than $4 per 20 miles.
Cost per mile is just one factor that goes into the overall cost of running a vehicle. Purchase price, maintenance costs, and fuel costs are all factors that should go into the equation. If you're driving 20k miles a year then yes, fuel cost would be a major factor to consider. But if you're only driving it 5k miles a year, it's not nearly as important. Would it be smart to pay a $5k premium for an alternative-fuel van if you only expect to save $3k in fuel costs over the length of ownership? No. (Well, unless you think the extra $2k is worth it to help the environment some). However...

nicelegs wrote:No full size vans other than low profile unloaded Sprinters fulfill this requirement.
My '97 Dodge 2500 extended van with sport top and solar panel on top gets around 17-18 mpg if I drive smart and keep it under 65mph, which at $3.50/gallon is almost exactly $4 per 20 miles. It's an automatic, too. I'd guess that many other vans would meet this requirement.
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Two cents on the travelin' van: Toyota Previa. Harder to find these days, but they're primo. They have a mid engine, located below the floor, which gives a huge amount of square footage inside. If you design your conversion in a way that would give you access to the engine, I think it would be a good way to go.

The other van I see a lot around Seattle (with Alaska plates) is a 4WD Vanagon.

The only way I know of to get a manual transmission in a full sized American van these days is to buy a fleet vehicle. The only problem with the full sized van... heavy & lousy mileage. And I don't think you need to haul the weight of stuff that we construction people do (My truck rarely has less than 850# in it, day & night), so I doubt you'd need the full size.

As for break-ins, the method around Seattle is a spring loaded center punch. They break the glass, grab and go. So maybe with a van, you could put 1/2" wire mesh in the rear windows, and make some inserts for the door windows, that you'd put in when you left the van. It would stop the grab & go folks.

To add to 20kN's suggestion of renter's insurance (! awesome idea!), lay out all your gear on a tarp, and have a friend take a photo including you in the pic. Pretty solid proof it's your gear.

My guess it that you'd be happiest with a Sprinter, but those cost big time. I suggest you stay away from AWD, it kills gas mileage. True 4WD is better. I actually do pretty well with the limited slip rear differential and actual winter tires in snow, mud etc.

Look up Tirerack.com... They have a comparison chart rating all the tires that will fit your vehicle. It's absolutely surprising to see how much you can pay for lousy tires, and that you can (occasionally) pay less for good ones. Good tires will help your mileage and hugely help your safety.

jTaylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 50
Mike Caracciolo wrote:And the biggest reason...the pop start. You'll be living out of this van. Honestly, the chances of you leaving something on that'll drain the battery are pretty high (especially when first getting everything set up). I'd love to hear a rebuttal to this, but I can't figure out any reason why anyone would ever consider an automatic.
If I have to pop-start it, i'll be very disappointed with my purchase. I want to spend enough to not worry about being in situations like that! I'm not sure what would drain the battery also? If I have a fridge or anything non-car related that needs power I want it to be solar powered ideally, not hooked up to the car battery.

vincent L. wrote:I see a Syncro in your future ... If you got the coin.
i wish, they seem really sweet but too expensive for what it is compared to a regular work van (unless i am mistaken?)

Mike Caracciolo wrote: cars.com/vehicledetail/deta… Boom!
i'd really have to have a thing for VWs to feel right about spending 16k on a 95 with that many miles... No boom, haha.

Ian Stewart wrote: As for conversion expense, it's up to what you want to put in it. A solar setup will cost somewhere in the $300-$800 range depending on quality and battery size. I splurged and bought a 50qt ARB fridge for mine, which was $900, but totally worth it. You're only limited by your imagination and your checkbook.
Great info Ian, I feel like i'm on the same page as you with everything i didn't include in the quote and appreciate the solar panel pricing info!

20 kN wrote:I would not keep food in your van in Yosemite. There are a million bear boxes everywhere, use them. If a ranger finds you left food in your car he is going to bust your face in, those guys dont fuck around. I have lived in Yosmeite for many months and I just kept my food at Corry Village. There are tons of boxes there. I would eat breakfast and dinner right on top of the bear boxes. It was easy. I would go with something that gets good MPG, which is not going to be AWD and it's likely a manual. AWD is really not necessary. I have spent over 24 months on the road living in my Jetta and only once did I want something a bit more beefy, and in that case I just caught a ride with someone else. There is more than enough climbing to last 100 lifetimes that can be accessed in a Prius. Do the math on the fuel economy. Figure out how much you plan to drive and then run the numbers. It's not rocket science. I drive a ton when I am on a trip as I cant stand to be in one area more than a month, and so 20,000 miles in one full climbing trip is not unusual for me. I have saved thousands upon thousands living in my diesel Jetta compared to a van because of the amount of driving I do. If you are worried about your crap in your van, get renters insurance. It's cheap and it will cover your stuff (be sure to get replacement value insurance). I pay like $300 a year for $10k in coverage through USAA.
I have no intentions of keeping food in my car while in Yosemite, I am ALWAYS very paranoid about this. When I was talking about having food in a van, what I meant more so was having a fridge that has food in it before I come into the valley... So I guess I am worried about left-over scents I should specify.

I've lived out a 2001 Saab 9-3 (originally $3,200) for 8 months in 2013 to save so I could travel for a year also. So I for sure know what it is like to live in a smaller car, and this is why I want a van now. I know my saab could take me to many climbing spots w/o a worry too - it's just that I feel like a van is much more appropriate and comfortable. I was thinking of a subaru forester for a bit, but after thinking about it - I really don't want to drop 10-15k on a forester... I feel this money could be more useful putting 8-10k into a van.... and with that said, it would be nice to spend 5-8k (before solar/extras) really, lol

As for miles, I don't feel like I'd do a ton of driving. I bought my Saab around 2006 with 72k on it and now it's about done at 123k. That's really not a whole lot over the years, and I love to drive!

Good thinking on insurance also!

Stich wrote:If I was going to go the van route, I would probably keep it usable for passengers and then just take out the back seats for longer trips. In that case, the Toyota Siennas and Honda Odysseys appeal. My friend and I road tripped in a Sienna for a week over summer with a futon mattress in the back and it was really excellent. It handled some rough roads to campsites fine, was quiet and nice on the highway, and we both really wanted to take it to J-tree but some dufus rear ended the thing on 24 and totalled it.
If I get a van I will probably ditch the backseats or try to sell em. One passenger seat is fine with me. I never liked being the guy driving a car full of people and I want a van for the space.

caughtinside wrote: A euro van? Really? The guy wants a road trip climbing van. Not a hobby car that will cost thousands annually to keep running.
agreed. I really love the VW setup - it's just that the collectors have really boosted that value way too much imo.

Robots and Dinosaurs wrote: I have a Sienna and love it, I have spent two weeks sleeping on my crash pad in the back of it. They are super reliable as well as plenty big enough if you are a minimalist. I don't know if you'd be able to fit in a fridge and stuff though.
the main thing I don't like about something like a Sienna is that it has all those extra windows... I'd rather just get a forester if i were to get a car with mostly windows. The only vans I really like w/ windows i've seen are the VWs since they seem to of been designed with more of a camping mindset, and the astro van.

Jesse Spiegel wrote:I have lived in and owned 4 vans all of which I converted. I think you can get a really good not too expensive automatic that will last for at least 3 years for $3,500 or less. I like the Aerostar van the Astro van and the Previa. You definitely want to make sure the transmission is in really good conditions. I like the space that you get inside the Aerostar in the Astro van. However the previa last forever. I'm going to be selling my currentt vans this month. Its a previa, kind of ugly, but super sound mechanically. I'd say about 150,000 miles left in her. It's got a bed with gear and kitchen storage that pull out from the trunk, a closet with sliding doors. Space for storing 2 coolers. If you're intrested private message me. If your looking to do your own converstion here are some pics of my last van to give you some ideas. No pictures at the moment of my previa. Good luck! Van life is the good life!
nice setup, thanks for sharing Jesse! I think i'll pass on the Previa. I do kinda want something that would last a while for sure also, even if I don't plan to keep it over 5 years I want the peace of mind! As my current car is a miserable mess of repairs after letting it sit for 8 months, the idea of dealing with car repairs is fresh in my memory, and something I dont want to deal with for as long as I can manage...

Whats the deal with painting over windows also? Is that legal? Nice CO mountain photo on your window you got there. Is it kinda like custom tinted windows where some police would give you shit, others would let it slide?

Ian Stewart wrote: I think this is a MUCH bigger problem than you're making it seem.
i feel like I agree with Ian Stewart more than Nicelegs - appreciate the input still nicelegs!

caribouman1052 wrote: As for break-ins, the method around Seattle is a spring loaded center punch. They break the glass, grab and go. So maybe with a van, you could put 1/2" wire mesh in the rear windows, and make some inserts for the door windows, that you'd put in when you left the van. It would stop the grab & go folks. To add to 20kN's suggestion of renter's insurance (! awesome idea!), lay out all your gear on a tarp, and have a friend take a photo including you in the pic. Pretty solid proof it's your gear. My guess it that you'd be happiest with a Sprinter, but those cost big time. I suggest you stay away from AWD, it kills gas mileage. True 4WD is better. I actually do pretty well with the limited slip rear differential and actual winter tires in snow, mud etc. Look up Tirerack.com... They have a comparison chart rating all the tires that will fit your vehicle. It's absolutely surprising to see how much you can pay for lousy tires, and that you can (occasionally) pay less for good ones. Good tires will help your mileage and hugely help your safety.
I do like the idea of the wire mesh. I saw that on one van while checking out craigslist and feel like it'd be a great addition. Not only to help protect myself while sleeping, but to protect my stuff while i'm gone.

glad to hear you say to stay away from AWD. I have driven FWD sedans my whole life, and even in MA never had any issues... I guess AWD just comes to mind since a van seems like a lot of mass to push around and the idea of having that much more comfort while driving in bad weather is nice... but then again, I kinda want a van to follow the seasons and not be stuck in the snow unless i want to!

thanks for the feedback every one :)
Joan Lee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 140
Vansion
Cabinets are in
Joan Lee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 140
Vansion too
Everyday life
jTaylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 50

looks nice Joan!

also, great tip who ever told me to search into conversion vans... MUCH better prices... so low it seems hard to believe compared to the work vans...

Joan Lee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 140

It's wider than sprinter so we can sleep side ways instead of long ways. My boyfriend is 6 ft.

Vnsion next to a a sprinter

Joan Lee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 140

Thank you. My boyfriend is a carpenter so he really enjoyed building it up. Still some small things left. We opted for "keep it simple stupid" . Works well so far. We have all of our possessions in it : climbing gear diving gear and bikes. All insured just in case.

jTaylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 50
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Joan,
are those varnished sections actually drawer fronts?

Ball · · Oakridge, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 70
Joan Lee wrote:It's wider than sprinter so we can sleep side ways instead of long ways. My boyfriend is 6 ft.
Isn't that an FWD van? Sounds like a good way to get stuck to me, but then the last time I got stuck was when my front diff broke.

If you're mechanically inclined, you can convert a AWD express to a 4WD (requires a custom front axle be made)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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