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Paid for 70M only got 65, watch out!

A.P.T. · · Truckee,Ca · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 985

Metolius sent me a rope that was short awhile back. They happily replaced it without any hesitations.

Its too bad we have to cover our asses and carefully inspect our safety equipment. We buy new stuff for a reason after all.
If this is getting by quality control, who knows what else is being sent out. Especially dangerous for beginners out there.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60
cdec wrote:Here the story. In the last year I have bought 3, 70M ropes that have all been measured out, by both me and the manufacturer, as being SHORT! Each was between 65-67M. They are being replaced. I know of 6 additional that have been measured in the 65M range and are currently being inspected by the manufacturer. I am posting this up to let folks know that if you are going to be making rope stretching rappels make sure that your cord is the true length you think it is. I am not going to discuss which maker it is as they are currently investigating the depth of the problem and making decisions on how to proceed. It is a top tier company. Good Luck out there.
This post is simply bullshit. If you are not going to give the name of the manufacturer and other relevant details, then I have no reason to believe you. To put it another way, you are acting like a drama queen withholding information to get attention and your post is little more than worthless internet spew without details.

Assuming that you are being truthful, this is not about 1 rope or an isolated mistake. This is about 9 ropes out of what appears to be a very small sample size. It might be that the manufacturer had an issue with one batch. It might be that they have a larger quality control issue. We don't know. With that in mind, I personally think "protecting" the supplier is absolutely the wrong thing to do. I would rather like to see transparency. Let's give the manufacturer a chance to address this in the right way, in public. If they did fuck up, they can come clean and handle it in a professional manner. If they do, they will gain my respect and my future dollars. If not, they deserve to lose business. If this number of defects is standard in the industry, then the manufacturer can say that and we will all be wiser. IMHO withholding information about who made these ropes only allows the manufacturer to avoid accountability for their QC shortcomings (assuming that they have any).
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Withholding the name doesn't mean they aren't being held accountable, it just gives them a chance to respond to their mistake before being crucified by MPers. If they fail to solve the problem, or had someone been seriously injured, they may deserve their PR being crucified but we should give them a chance to fix the issue before we unleash a storm of MP spray

With the internet, anyone with a keyboard can do significant damage to a manufacturer's reputation even if they are just pulling shit out of their ass

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
A.P.T. wrote:Its too bad we have to cover our asses and carefully inspect our safety equipment.
When has that not been the case? I can't think of a single safety program that does not include equipment inspection.

A.P.T. wrote:We buy new stuff for a reason after all.
And the reason is because you can't make it yourself.

There is no such thing as perfect. Ask any QC manager anywhere if their production is better than six sigma. The silence will be deafening. ALL production has variation, natural or otherwise, and consumers WILL receive defects. How many defects is the only real question.

I hope the manufacturer is open about the source of the problem.
NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60
eli poss wrote:Withholding the name doesn't mean they aren't being held accountable, it just gives them a chance to respond to their mistake before being crucified by MPers. If they fail to solve the problem, or had someone been seriously injured, they may deserve their PR being crucified but we should give them a chance to fix the issue before we unleash a storm of MP spray With the internet, anyone with a keyboard can do significant damage to a manufacturer's reputation even if they are just pulling shit out of their ass
Eli, I respectfully disagree. While you are right that anyone can post bullshit on the internet and ATTEMPT to damage a manufacturer's reputation, a manufacturer has at least an equal opportunity (and I would posit, a MUCH GREATER one) to use the internet to respond. I think a good example of this was the non-issue with x4 kinking and failures. BD responded to e-mails about the issue with details on their testing and why the x4 was solid gear. Problem (which never really existed) solved and BD's rep is not damaged.

If this is not a big deal and the manufacturer should be allowed time to address this publicly, then the OP is a drama queen and should have just kept his mouth shut. If this is indicative of a larger QC issue, then the manufacturer should have already addressed this. Either way, consumers withholding details about QC issues with life safety equipment does nothing to help ensure that manufacturers act in a professional manner.

Transparency keeps everyone honest and, IMHO, is the best way to see this issue (if there even is one) resolved in the best way possible.
Ian Stewart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 155

I don't really understand why the manufacturer name is being withheld, either.

If there's some known defect with a particular brand of cam, and it's known before the company has a chance to make a public statement, I think it would be completely irresponsible to say "there are some defective cams out there but I'm not going to name the company". So why is it OK to do so with ropes? Is it just because everybody has access to a tape measure, but not everybody has access to a pull/load testing device?

I might measure my ropes when I get home, but I've never done so before in my life. I trust that a 70m rope will get me 35m down on a rappel, just like I trust that a 22kn rating on a biner means that it will hold 22kn in the right conditions. Ropes are supposed to be guaranteed to a certain level of quality, and I would expect that the length -- likely the easiest variable to measure -- should be correct.

If a manufacturer makes the same mistake many times, they DESERVE to be called out. This isn't something that should even be questioned. And seeing as we still haven't seen anything from the manufacturer, I say it's already been too long.

That being said, if you get into an accident because your rope is a few meters short, that's completely your fault. Tie knots, folks.

MP · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2

bearbreeder-- thanks for posting how manufacturers are supposed to measure rope length.

However, this does not get at the key question: how close to the stated length does the rope have to be? Does every rope have to be measured prior to sale? Do ropes that are some % too long or short not supposed to be sold?

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
mpech wrote:bearbreeder-- thanks for posting how manufacturers are supposed to measure rope length. However, this does not get at the key question: how close to the stated length does the rope have to be? Does every rope have to be measured prior to sale? Do ropes that are some % too long or short not supposed to be sold?
well one would hope that the rope meets at minimum the stated length !!!

if not thats pretty deceptive advertising, and if substantially short is a safety issue ... sure you can tie knots at the end of the rope, but you may still be stuck on the wall !!!

manufacturers such as mammut state that they cute their ropes around 2% longer than actual to account for the shrinkage when a rope ages/gets used

they can make it as long as they want, but it should never be short when new

realistically how hard is it to make sure a rope is to the proper length ... the process should be automated (or if not they should be using a standardized measuring device thats constantly checked for calibration) ...

a random testing of the ropes should catch this issue, enough not to let 9 ropes go out .... that the OP knows of or owns

my personal suspicion is that this thread will die after a few days, everyone will get into the next senseless argument thread .. and nothing will get posted by the manufacturer about it

anyone heard back from the CAMP promise to post up here about their cracked tricams?

Brian here at our office will reach out with return information so we can get the unit back and have it inspected. In the meantime, once I hear back from our R&D department I will post a company reply to the thread on Mountain Project so folks have some follow up.

mountainproject.com/v/trica…

;)
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

I posted up to let people know that short ropes happen and to be careful while this gets sorted out. The usual MP bullshit of name calling and figuring out who to blame has, as quickly as ever, ensued.

It really doesn't matter how outraged you are that a product could make it to market and NOT be what it says it is or how put off you might be that you should take a look at your cord, the fact is that short/mismarked ropes happen. Even if, as someone has mentioned, I am lying there are 3 different manufactures mentioned in this thread alone as having sold short ropes. So this happens. Unless we are all lying.

Remember It has been 6 f&%KIng days 2 of of which were the weekend since they were made aware of the issue. I'll give it some more time.

Drama Queen, please. Look in the mirror ELI.

MP · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2

bearbreeder-- i'm not a rope manufacturer, so i don't know how costly it would be to make every rope exactly the stated length (+/-, say, 0.5M).

I read that ropes are made in a very large spool, then cut to size. I would bet the manufacturer is trying to minimize waste in this process--imagine having to throw away a $250 70M rope because it is a few feet short...

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60
cdec wrote:I posted up to let people know that short ropes happen and to be careful while this gets sorted out. The usual MP bullshit of name calling and figuring out who to blame has, as quickly as ever, ensued. It really doesn't matter how outraged you are that a product could make it to market and NOT be what it says it is or how put off you might be that you should take a look at your cord, the fact is that short/mismarked ropes happen. Even if, as someone has mentioned, I am lying there are 3 different manufactures mentioned in this thread alone as having sold short ropes. So this happens. Unless we are all lying. Remember It has been 6 f&%KIng days 2 of of which were the weekend since they were made aware of the issue. I'll give it some more time. Drama Queen, please. Look in the mirror ELI.
It has only been "6 fucking days," and yet YOU couldn't keep your panties on long enough to let the manufacturer reply before you had to spew half a story with most of the details redacted. Everyone already knew that ropes OCCASIONALLY leave the factory being a few feet longer or shorter than advertised. You claim something totally different; that you have first hand knowledge of 9 mislabeled ropes out of a small sample size from the same manufacturer. This (if true) is a totally different issue. By withholding who manufactured these ropes you do nothing for the community except place yourself in the center of your own little drama. IMHO, that is bullshit.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
mpech wrote:bearbreeder-- i'm not a rope manufacturer, so i don't know how costly it would be to make every rope exactly the stated length (+/-, say, 0.5M). I read that ropes are made in a very large spool, then cut to size. I would bet the manufacturer is trying to minimize waste in this process--imagine having to throw away a $250 70M rope because it is a few feet short...
they can sell the last end as a 60m then ...

and honestly it should not be a consideration for top tier rope company

we arent talking about half a meter short here ... but 3-5m according to the OP

my question is if these are happening on new ropes

from mammut

a rope shrinks with use, but reputable manufacturers tend to cut their ropes a bit longer to offset this

if these arent new fresh out of the box ropes, but have been used decently ... we might be arguing about nothing

;)
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654
NC Rock Climber wrote: It has only been "6 fucking days," and yet YOU couldn't keep your panties on long enough to let the manufacturer reply before you had to spew half a story with most of the details redacted. Everyone already knew that ropes OCCASIONALLY leave the factory being a few meters longer or shorter than advertised. You claim something totally different; that you have first hand knowledge of 9 mislabeled ropes out of a small sample size from the same manufacturer. This (if true) is a totally different issue. By withholding who manufactured these ropes you do nothing for the community except place yourself in the center of your own little drama. IMHO, that is bullshit.
Calm down little Timmy. I am quick to curse.
It's been 6 days since they were alerted. A few less than that for my post that tells the whole story except for naming the company.
I don't think everyone knew that ropes left the factory short. In fact I think that very few people thought it a possibility. That's why I posted plain and simple. Hoping to help. So instead of the angry Mob heading to burn down the evil manufacturer they are instead turning on each other and me.
Ain't my drama. I've climbed a bunch of pitches in the last few days, have a little time to respond and am happy with my choices.

So angry
NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

When I read "vaginal froth" I literally laughed out loud. Then, after thinking about it, I concluded that no other poster on this site better exemplifies the term than Killis. Despite the pitiful irony, the post is pretty entertaining. Cheers.

FWIW, I don't recall ever claiming to want to nail the manufacturer to a cross or painting them as evil. I just called out the drama queen behavior as I saw it and made a case for transparency. Obviously, that is not going to happen here. Best of luck with your tampons ladies.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346


This is what happens when you dont think:

nytimes.com/2014/08/28/us/a…
NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

LOL! I love how you almost never miss an opportunity to make a thread about you. Narcissistic Personality Disorder much?

All that aside, I was serious when I said that I found your post entertaining. Actually, I find almost all of your posts entertaining. You should be making your living from your wordsmithing skills and humor. I am 100% serious. Although I often (VERY often) think you are an ass, you really have a gift. Cheers.

EricF · · San Francisco · Joined May 2012 · Points: 120

+1 For cupping the balls
-1 For sandy vagina
+1 For Mammut Ropes

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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