can I have my portal edge back?

Keep it if you want. It would be nice to get back. and of course the beer is on me. Thanks
Chris.

I don't know if you can have it back, it's not yours anymore, you forfeited ownership. I'm sorry you got hurt but you should have had a plan to recover your property instead of abandoning it on public land.

A year is a long time.

I hope you get your portledge back and pay whoever returns it to you a price that would allow them to purchase a similar ledge to replace the one they picked up and donated back to you due to its emotional worth.

Note: original post changed to reflect concerns brought up later on in this thread.

portal

ledge

Since when did stealing someone's big wall cache become ok in climbing circles?
If you think it shouldn't be there, let the rangers know or bring it down and give it to the rangers to hold.
Total BS to just grab it and keep it.

Rob Davis wrote:portal ledge

+1
read it as a twilight zone post as well...... need this for my book-end game and i needed it yesterday

kevin deweese wrote:A year is a long time.

1. Everyone that makes a bigwall cache fully expects their stuff to be stolen if it's found. You hope it won't, but hope doesn't help buy new replacement gear. Plus, if it's found, it wasn't that good of a cache.

2. This wasn't a cache, this was left behind. The OP made the choice to wait a year before going back up himself and made the choice not to send friends or porters up there to get it for him.

kevin deweese wrote: 1. Everyone that makes a bigwall cache fully expects their stuff to be stolen if it's found. You hope it won't, but hope doesn't help buy new replacement gear. Plus, if it's found, it wasn't that good of a cache. 2. This wasn't a cache, this was left behind. The OP made the choice to wait a year before going back up himself and made the choice not to send friends or porters up there to get it for him.

We may just have to disagree on this one.

I don't think he should be leaving caches in the backcountry.
But it's still not right to take stuff that isn't yours, even if the person leaving the stuff arguably "deserves it."

kevin deweese wrote:A year is a long time. I hope you get your portledge back and pay whoever returns it to you a price that would allow them to purchase a similar ledge to replace the one they picked up while they were being proper stewards of the land and donated back to you due to its emotional worth.

Maybe in California it is... It doesn't sound like they were being stewards of the land since they dumped all his soft goods on the hill and took off with the hardware. That stuff could've sat in his haulbag safe for years without getting scattered around by critters and the elements.

Mark E Dixon wrote: But it's still not right to take stuff that isn't yours, even if the person leaving the stuff arguably "deserves it."

The gear was abandoned and had no ownership. The person who took it became the new owner legally. No theft involved or moral turpitude.

Normally, gear left behind due an accident/injury (like this case) is not abandoned and free for the taking. Most people respect that - not all - but most.

However, this case is a bit out of the ordinary as it does not sound like the OP expected the stashed gear to be found and as such did not advertise that it was left due his mishap nor took steps to have it recovered by friends last fall or if possible earlier this spring/summer by himself. So a bit of a mea culpa.

On the other hand coming across a large stash of gear and taking it is being a douche bag. Yeah climbers stash gear and yeah it pissing some folks off but taking the hardware and dumping the software is being douche bag.

If gear caches piss ya off haul them out and leave them with the sheriff with your contact info. Post up something about the gear and after 30-90 days check back with the sheriff cause if it ain't been claimed it is yours - legally and ethically.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: No theft involved or moral turpitude.

That's your opinion and moral... In mine the person who took it was D-bag, legal or otherwise, no ifs or buts about it.

doligo wrote:It doesn't sound like they were being stewards of the land since they dumped all his soft goods on the hill and took off with the hardware. That stuff could've sat in his haulbag safe for years without getting scattered around by critters and the elements.

You make a good point. I'll change my post to reflect that point.

Chris White wrote:I erased the original post because it sounded like I was whining.

Only to follow that with a post with most of the same info that one might consider whiney minus the part where you left if there for a year?

Granted, I'm in Ca and I don't have to worry about my caches being locked up in snowpack (especially these last years) but how long was the diamond inaccessible to the average climber approach due to snow last year?

reboot wrote: That's your opinion and moral... In mine the person who took it was D-bag, legal or otherwise, no ifs or buts about it.

So at what point is the property left by the OP considered litter? If you parked your car on public property for a year it would get towed and the wrecking yard would file for title. Is this different because you're a climber and relate to the OP? Seems hypocritical, I don't think you approve of people leaving their property on public land but somehow this is different because of the type of property left.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: So at what point is the property left by the OP considered litter? If you parked your car on public property for a year it would get towed and the wrecking yard would file for title. Is this different because you're a climber and relate to the OP? Seems hypocritical, I don't think you approve of people leaving their property on public land but somehow this is different because of the type of property left.

Ray, as I more or less posted above there are proper (legal) ways to classify property as being abandoned. Owner of the property did not do their due diligence. However, it does not appear that the person who took it did either.

Allen Sanderson wrote: Ray, as I more or less posted above there are proper (legal) ways to classify property as being abandoned. Owner of the property did not do their due diligence. However, it does not appear that the person who took it did either.

All I know is the OP left gear on public property, everything else is conjecture.

I'm sorry the OP was injured, I hope he has recovered well.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: All I know is the OP left gear on public property, everything else is conjecture.

You keep trying to use legal codes to justify your moral values and it ain't helping...

To me this is pretty simple, ask yourself a couple questions:

1) Is the stuff left really affecting anybody, individually or communally?
IFAIK, it was well packed and stashed, and if not for individual that spill the soft goods around, could last quite a while w/o deterioration.

2) Is the stuff insignificant enough/not worth the effort for most people to get it back (from where it was left)?
A cam or few left high on the diamond is quite a bit different than multiple sets of cams, ledge & all left at the boulder field.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: So at what point is the property left by the OP considered litter? If you parked your car on public property for a year it would get towed and the wrecking yard would file for title.

How bout bong stashes at resort or BC ski runs? I thought that was the coolest example of honesty and community. And I don't even drink! So skiers don't steal each other's weed bowls but.. Wait a minute! troll, troll,troll your boat gently down the stream.. Good one.

reboot wrote: 1) Is the stuff left really affecting anybody, individually or communally?

Yes, it is. It is littering. Is leaving an abandoned car on public land really affecting anyone? Is throwing my beer cans in the forest really affecting anyone? The reason you are desperately trying to get away from the legal ownership transfer is because your position is arbitrary and you do not believe it extends to all activities outdoors. The OP's actions would not be acceptable if you weren't a climber and this wasn't missing climbing gear.

If I recall correctly, the OP wasn't just injured. He was nearly killed. I think I read on here that it was up to $600K in bills and it probably went up from there.

Someone with that extent of injuries isn't likely to be running up to the Diamond the next weekend to pick up.

Maybe I'm recalling the wrong incident, my memory being what it is.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Yes, it is. It is littering. Is leaving an abandoned car on public land really affecting anyone? Is throwing my beer cans in the forest really affecting anyone? The reason you are desperately trying to get away from the legal ownership transfer is because your position is arbitrary and you do not believe it extends to all activities outdoors. The OP's actions would not be acceptable if you weren't a climber and this wasn't missing climbing gear.

An abandoned car has many toxic components that will need to be properly disposed of, not to mention if it's left close to a road/off-trail is a potential hazard. Your beer cans are trash, they have no value. Judging from the selective stuff taken, the d-bag wasn't there to clean up littering.

I'm not saying the OP should've left his stuff there, even if he was subsequently injured. But I bet whomever took his stuff thought he stumbled on a jackpot. And if that didn't give him enough pause to think how he's fucking over someone else, it makes him a d-bag. Simple.