Clipping fixed gear means?....

usually I stay out of anything with grades well above what I can comprehend even on top rope, but this does seem lame.

Granted, I feel dirty when I clip a bolt on a trad route, and never sport climbed, I thought the whole idea of trad was ground up gear placement?

Remove bolts for less secure and higher maintenance pins? Makes no sense.

I guess I don't understand the point, if you want to climb trad, lead it from the ground up. Otherwise it's basically sport climbing.

I'm going to start doing this in the Gunks. I bet I lead 2 grades better off the bat.

J. Serpico wrote:I thought the whole idea of trad was ground up gear placement?

What if the climb is top-rope rehearsed and inspected, then led while placing all pro on lead? Trad????

I liked the Video thanks for posting it up.

Blommerz wrote:What if the climb is top-rope rehearsed and inspected, then led while placing all pro on lead? Trad????

Of course it's still trad. It may not be as impressive as just leading from the ground up to go for the onsite, but it's still trad. Saying otherwise would be like saying that Honnold isn't really free soloing because he dials in the climbs with a rope, first.

That's not the scenario here, though.

If Roland had chopped the bolts then led while placing gear, this would just be your usual "should trad lines be chopped" piss fest and many people would be supporting him. Heck, some people might even support his chopping if he pre-placed nuts and cams, since that means somebody *could* conceivably lead it with a "clean" style down the road. But the fucktard has chopped bolts and hammered in freaking pitons to equalize nuts with super long slings instead. So he's tried to make it as safe as a sport climb, then climbed it as if it were a sport climb, and then claimed it's a "cleaner" style even though he's only done MORE damage to the rock. Not to mention the asshat worked the route using the bolts for two years before he did this.

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote:This is stupid. Let's talk about the global banking paradigm, that's more important. A Matriarch of the Rothschild family died this past week. That will create ripples..., or we can talk about Wes Welker's concussion, damn, that Swearinger guy is such a douche. But this topic? This topic right here? This is silly.

Zappatista, I was replying to Danks post about silly climbing threads. You chimed in before me so I guess that threw you off.

Anyways, ya I remember you got all upset about writing some BS on your thread. Let it go.

Isn't bad mouthing the company that sponsors this site akin to biting the hand that feeds you?

Ed.
Not that I condone what Is going on here.
But since I'm old and can no longer crank I should just shut the f@ck up and crawl under a rock?

Pontoon wrote:Gunks Jesse, it's an FA if it's climbed free, which he did.

Aid routes get FAs all the time. If an aid route goes free typically there's a FA and a FFA.

Blommerz wrote: What if the climb is top-rope rehearsed and inspected, then led while placing all pro on lead? Trad????

Nope, not Trad. People seem to thing traditional climbing means the type of protection, but it is actually the style the climbing is done it.

Trad climbing = ground up. Practicing the moves on TR and pre inspecting the gear placements = sport.

beccs wrote: Nope, not Trad. People seem to thing traditional climbing means the type of protection, but it is actually the style the climbing is done it. Trad climbing = ground up. Practicing the moves on TR and pre inspecting the gear placements = sport.

Except the acceptable style of traditional climbing kept evolving. Ground up, at least at one point, wasn't sufficient for something to be considered "trad". Many of the hard (for its time or current) traditionally protected routes are established in headpoint style. It certainly isn't sport climbing.

reboot wrote: Except the acceptable style of traditional climbing kept evolving. Ground up, at least at one point, wasn't sufficient for something to be considered "trad". Many of the hard (for its time or current) traditionally protected routes are established in headpoint style. It certainly isn't sport climbing.

Headpointing is like the retarded baby brother of sport climbing.

beccs wrote: Headpointing is like the retarded baby brother of sport climbing.

It preceded sport climbing. If anything is retarded, it's trying to use the word "trad" these days.

reboot wrote: It preceded sport climbing. If anything is retarded, it's trying to use the word "trad" these days.

A headpoint is fine style in an area where it is accepted style. If you are headpointing a route in the middle of an established sport area to avoid bolting, you are kinda dumb.

I wish I could still use the word retarded. It's off the table though, it's more ignorant these days than saying something like "leave no trace".

Tom-onator wrote:Isn't bad mouthing the company that sponsors this site akin to biting the hand that feeds you?

No. BD is not "the company that sponsors" Mountain Project. They're just one of the many companies that pay for advertising. Even if they were "the" sponsor, they don't write my name on any checks.

reboot wrote: If anything is retarded, it's trying to use the word "trad" these days.

Ughkkk Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

I've been using swami belts, hemp ropes and an alpenstock for a while, it definitely helps with my internet penis size for sure.

beccs wrote: Practicing the moves on TR and pre inspecting the gear placements = sport.

Nope its still rad Trad... but its called a headpoint. Look it up if you like.

nicelegs wrote: I wish I could still use the word retarded. It's off the table though, it's more ignorant these days than saying something like "leave no trace".

Just substitute "retraded".

As in; "this route has been retraded"? I personally like, "retradified" or maybe in this case, just plain "tradified".

Blommerz wrote: What if the climb is top-rope rehearsed and inspected, then led while placing all pro on lead? Trad????

I'm neither a gifted natural climber nor a bad ass hard man who leads 2 grades past my limit as a matter of routine, so take my take however you want.

Trad is onsight ground up. I don't begrudge anyone for following or top roping a route at the edge of their ability, but for me a pure trad lead is ground up, onsight, gear placed on lead. If you top rope or follow first and rehearse it, you still need to place gear from stances, and if the gear is fiddly or the stances are strenous, it's still a lot harder than clipping preplaced gear. There is also an element of route finding and problem solving missing from a rehearsed route. The route might still be hard, but the problem solving is removed, it's just a matter of physically doing the moves.

My issue with this climb is I don't get the point. IMO, it's no more a FFA than the bolted route, it's not trad, and it's no cleaner than the bolts were. In fact, all he did was make it less likely others can climb it and made it less safe long term.

its all , like art, open to your own interpretation. but when you see- Black Diamond - 14c- Trad over bolts- you kinda have big expectations. this "send" whatever it is, at what ever grade, is just lame.

your sport route has been retrotraded!!