Clipping fixed gear means?....

Just watched
blackdiamondequipment.com/s…

It was good that BD was careful not to call it trad. It was a send on fixed gear, preplaced on rappel even. So it was exactly the same as a send of a bolted line with draws hung.

What is the point?

So he chopped some bolts, scarring the rock. Then he proceeds to fail at climbing the route in good style by placing the gear, and in desperation to send, he preplaces gear (including non-clean gear (pitons), shame) and sends.

If he cared about style it would have been done ground up. Leave a bolt instead of pounding a pin. And then after sending it in good style, then you can consider removing the bolts. But even then it's stupid because the damage to the rock was already done. Removing the boots just makes this climb more dangerous and less accessible to others who may want to climb it in the future. I can think of numerous climbs that were oft neglected due to being a shitty trad lead, they were bolted, and then it's a classic. Why do the opposite to a climb that clearly is not going on gear in good style?

So BD sponsors these sort of climbers?

Lame

Absolutely nothing about the bolts would have prevented him from leading this on gear. So the chopping was done only to prevent *others* from climbing the route in a manner he disapproved of.

Yup, I sure am glad you chopped that route and put it up in a "cleaner style."

At least the original style was honest.

Ego: it's lame. So many climbers need to check it.

Preplacing clean pro on rappel would have been one step up from bolts perhaps as after you removed said pieces - the route might have been lead traditionally clean from the ground up someday by the next generation of climbers. But removing existing bolts to preplace gear - I simply don't understand the why behind it.

completely cheesy.

Isn't that booty?

Gunks Jesse, it's an FA if it's climbed free, which he did. So he absolutely got the FA, the question is about style. It would have been an FA on bolts, FA on preplaced gear, FA on self placed gear, FA free solo, FA mixed climb... Ground up or not.

I think ground up trad is admirable and an enjoyable style, but we're talking about top level difficulties. Hangdogging and bolts make more and more sense the harder the route is. The same people who complain about hangdogging are generally the same ones who don't climb at the upper difficulties (there are counterexamples I'm sure, but I'm asserting that the majority of top level climbers are OK with bolts and hangdogging and not climbing ground up)... There's a reason hangdogging became a thing, and that's because it makes more sense when climbing really hard stuff. Same with bolts and preplaced draws and preplaced gear. I have no issues with hangdogging, bolts, or preplaced gear, especially on hard climbs. I have an issue with people removing bolts that would have made more people happy over time. The fact that he then proceeds to climb it in poor style adds to the lunacy of this story.

Regardless of the style of protection I think he gets the FA because the upper head wall had remained unclimbed. While on trad gear it can not be called a trad ascent cause that would imply no pre-placed gear.

That said, it would appear to me that the trad gear placements were fewer and farther between than the bolt placements as it looked like he took some pretty good whippers. I can see the preplacement of some of the more difficult pieces but I did laugh at the long slings so to make the clips from an easier stance. Using the pin(s) was no better or worse than the bolt so removing the bolt and replacing it with a pin was silly. Of course placing bolt(s) next to a crack is as well.

Climbing such a silly game.

So he raps down and chops someone else's route they put the time, effort and money into bolting. The only way I could see this being remotely ok is if the guy who bolted the route said he could chop them, otherwise that's really just a dick move.

there isn't a grade high enough to chase with such sh*ty style-

It sure looked to me like the crack was easy and he preplaced the gear just to do it. By the time he got to the actual crux, there was no gear preplaced or otherwise, so he ran it out.

He essentially ruined a 5.14c (if I remember the conversion) sport route because it had an easy gear protectable start.

I hate to use words like ground up, trad, scarring, pinkpoint, etc because they are typically the realm of weak climbers and old men who should have quit a long time ago (who are also weak climbers). This situation seems to be appropriate though.

Had he worked this ground up and attacked the wall sans bolts, it's all his. Had he TR'd the shit out of it but led it placing gear, again it's his.

What he did was more akin to a stunt or trick, not climbing in it's accepted forms. It is a shame that he erased a high level route to do it.

What I wanna know is: how did he do that move at 1:55?

I watched this video last week, expecting something cool. Wrong.

At 1m00s, there's a pin placed right below a bomber nut. wtf?

And that nest of pins is horrible, it scars and damages the rock a lot more than a bolt. I'm trying to think of situations where that nest would be okay in North American. An anchor on some route put up 50 years ago? Maybe, just maybe, some A5 pitch on El Cap, if the previous pieces weren't just 5' and 10' lower? Anyone?

And neato, he took a few clean whippers while 6' above that nest. Sport and trad climbers take falls longer than that all the time, even when they're not skipping clips on the send.

Compare this to the huge 13b runouts on thin sandstone gear on the Tombstone. Or Cobra Crack. Or Elbsandstein. Or Gritstone. Or all the 5.11 climbers that have sacked up for Jules Verne....

nicelegs wrote:I hate to use words like ground up, trad, scarring, pinkpoint, etc because they are typically the realm of weak climbers and old men who should have quit a long time ago (who are also weak climbers).

Wow...hopefully when you get old or weak you'll just quit too. Just because you can climb "hard" it doesn't make you special. How do you climb and not say trad? Maybe something cool and hip like "gear"?

It's just climbing dude...you know for fun. It's only impressive if someone knows what you are talking about.

I wouldn't say that old or weak climbers should quit (I'm pretty weak myself especially trad climbing). But they should also not criticize others for not climbing their way when different circumstances are making different things make sense.

Anybody who thinks climbing on fixed/preset gear with long pre-hung and equalized slings is anything but "sport" climbing is delusional. And chopping bolts just to hammer in some pitons -- further damaging the rock while not changing the characteristics of the climbing/protection other than decreasing longevity and making it less safe -- makes less sense than sticking your dick in a light socket.

I'm not surprised that there's somebody out there who would do this, but I'm extremely surprised and disappointed that BD would sponsor and promote this person and their actions. This is the first time I feel compelled to write an email to a company to express my concerns, as this does absolutely nothing but hurt the climbing community.

Not only that, the video edit was pretty shitty, too.

Do ittttt. I'll write to BD too.

This is stupid. Let's talk about the global banking paradigm, that's more important. A Matriarch of the Rothschild family died this past week. That will create ripples..., or we can talk about Wes Welker's concussion, damn, that Swearinger guy is such a douche.

But this topic? This topic right here? This is silly.

Let's talk more about big oil. That was a constructive conversation. Let's talk football so someone can say football is silly so I wanna talk about climbing.

Haha, WTF

Zappatista wrote:BPD, don't harsh their mellow. For a minute there, we were all in awe of how hard these hardmaynes posted. So hard...hard. Really hard.

You're completely right Zappa. My girlfriend just left me because she read a few of those post and was all "wow, these guys must be complete badasses" and then she went to find them.

Sad story