Ethics behind retro bolting how far do they go?

eli poss wrote: Disclaimer: I'm not saying you are wrong I just want to get to the source of this confusion Can you cite an example in some written text, be it on paper or online, where a bolted climb is referred to as a trad climb. Because in any guidebooks I've seen, bolts=sport and no bolts(other than bolted belays)=trad. In addition, this is, to my knowledge, how climbs are categorized here on the Proj. Also, at many sport crags in Chattanooga, there are climbs where one can deck between in first bolt and the second bolt, and not just if they blow a clip. For example, the other day I was on Volgen Slab in Leda and I was only 2 ft above the first bolt and I had my foot on the wrong hold so I slipped and decked. Luckily it only resulted in giving me a scare and my partner having to lead it, but I had blown the second clip, I'd imagine I could be out for the season.

Drive a few hours east to Stone Mountain. There are lots of lines there that protect with only bolts. Report back and tell us if you (or anyone else) think they are sport climbs.

Actually go climb infinite bliss and try to say its a sport climb. Or actually anything with bolts at Darrington as well as say those are sport climbs.

mountainproject.com/v/10642…

OMG he is getting to near the BOLTS NO!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!! YOU WILL TURN IT INTO A SPORT CLIMB THE MOMENT YOU CLIP THEM!!!!

Yes they are still sport climbs. There are spicy sport climbs out there. I'm not a huge fan of them but there are plenty of sport climbs in Durango that were bolted on lead and are very run out. What's all the hostility for, it's just a friendly conversation

Also, I'm not one to use Wikipedia as my go-to for climbing but I looked up trad climbing as per suggestion:
" trad climbing, is a style of rock climbing in which a climber or group of climbers place all gear required to protect against falls, and removes it when a passage is complete"

So do you guys remove the bolts on those trad climbs or do you leave em as is?

eli poss wrote:Yes they are still sport climbs. There are spicy sport climbs out there. I'm not a huge fan of them but there are plenty of sport climbs in Durango that were bolted on lead and are very run out. What's all the hostility for, it's just a friendly conversation Also, I'm not one to use Wikipedia as my go-to for climbing but I looked up trad climbing as per suggestion: " trad climbing, is a style of rock climbing in which a climber or group of climbers place all gear required to protect against falls, and removes it when a passage is complete" So do you guys remove the bolts on those trad climbs or do you leave em as is?

No hostility here.

^^You can keep saying this, but it doesn't make it true. Please ask anyone who has been climbing more than a few years. And you are right to mistrust Wiki, there are plenty of errors in it.

eli poss wrote: What's all the hostility for, it's just a friendly conversation

People tend to get frustrated by conversations with inexperienced know-it-alls.

Well folks, it seems like the debate of climbing terms and their definitions could be its own thread. I think there's a lot history that goes behind these definitions and many people have their own arguments for what is fact and what is not. Since we don't seem any closer to a verdict from when this was first brought up (on this thread), what do we say we simply agree to disagree at this point and move on. I will continue forward using less ambiguous terminology as to avoid similar situations.

Getting back to the actual meat of the discussion;

Guy - I thoroughly enjoyed your last two posts, thanks for sharing those here and adding some healthy insight. That little history lesson was quite neat if I may say so and fun to hear it from a first person point of view.

Eric - Yes some folks have brought up B-Y and Southern Belle. Both absolutely mind blowing and awesome to read the stories about them, Hank Caylor's description of his attempt of Southern Belle gets my palms sweating every time I read it. Thanks to those who have brought these climbs up.

Hey Guy, nice shot of Katie on Water Crack. That chick cranks.

Alex Bury wrote:Hey Guy, nice shot of Katie on Water Crack. That chick cranks.

Alex, yes she can, tons of natural talent.... I told her if she wanted to be a TM hardman.... the Water Crack was a must do.

LJ has talked her into training! Spin Classes, Strenght Training and lots of leading, like full days at ECHO....

She might just become a monster.

But lets not get this topic off of the rails.

Peace

Guy Keesee wrote: But lets not get this topic off of the rails.

It's OK Guy. I'm pretty sure that happened a long time ago here.

What a coincidence, just arrived in my mailbox this morning lol

Aphorism #239 - Do not be Captious.

"It is much more important to be sensible. To know more than is necessary blunts your weapons, for fine points generally bend or break. Common-sense truth is the surest. It is well to know but not to niggle. Lengthy comment leads to disputes. It is much better to have sound sense, which does not wander from the matter in hand."

Baltasar Gracián