Ethics behind retro bolting how far do they go?
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I believe bolting the retro is not something allowed. Sven Lavransen always tell to me to no add bolts to established climb, no matter how scared I be on the climbing rocks. |
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kennoyce wrote: No, that would most certainly be a trad climb.Not in CT.. 1 bolt = sport climb lol but then again we special folk. |
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kennoyce wrote: No, that would most certainly be a trad climb.What are you smoking? It must be really good! A trad climb is a climb typically protected with traditional gear that was used for free climbing before the popularization of bolts in climbing. This gear consists of stoppers (nuts, chocks, etc.), tricams, and SLCDs or cams. A sport climb is a climb that is protected by bolts or fixed pins. Climbs that utilize trad gear when it is provided by the rock and bolts where there aren't any features the place trad gear in are referred to as mixed |
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You spoke of not being able to contact the FA parties in the future. |
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eli poss wrote: What are you smoking? It must be really good! A trad climb is a climb typically protected with traditional gear that was used for free climbing before the popularization of bolts in climbing. This gear consists of stoppers (nuts, chocks, etc.), tricams, and SLCDs or cams. A sport climb is a climb that is protected by bolts or fixed pins. Climbs that utilize trad gear when it is provided by the rock and bolts where there aren't any features the place trad gear in are referred to as mixedAs usual, Eli Poss has no idea what he's talking about. Believe it or not, trad stands for traditional and traditionally, bolts were used in climbing long before cams or nuts were even dreamed about. Trad generally means a climb that was esrablished from the ground up with all bolts and gear being placed on lead. Sport on the other hand is defined as a well protected bolted climb where you can focus on the movement. Mixed is not even a true rock climbing term (though it is being incorrectly used more and more frequently) and refers to climbing a combination of rock and ice. |
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kennoyce wrote: As usual, Eli Poss has no idea what he's talking about. Believe it or not, trad stands for traditional and traditionally, bolts were used in climbing long before cams or nuts were even dreamed about. Trad generally means a climb that was esrablished from the ground up with all bolts and gear being placed on lead. Sport on the other hand is defined as a well protected bolted climb where you can focus on the movement. Mixed is not even a true rock climbing term (though it is being incorrectly used more and more frequently) and refers to climbing a combination of rock and ice.Technically, yes mixed is not the correct term but I have seen it in a few guide books and haven't seen our heard any other term for that. And while bolts were used before the invention of the modern chock, they weren't used nearly as much as they are today until the big sport climbing movement in Europe. Before then, climbing was generally limited to cracks or faces with features to place trad gear in. And while most sport climbs are well protected, not all are. The way I defined trad and sport is the way the terms are used in route beta like guidebooks or online databases like MP. |
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Ah the "Community" gambit. Here's the deal. A "Community" of climbers, actually spanning now a couple generations, decided that bolts should be kept to a minimum, that rockclimbing wasn't just about the moves, that it's Ok to get scared sometimes,that you should have enough sense and skills to investigate shit without getting hurt too. |
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tsaint.... sorry to come off as harsh. As you can see the incorrect use of a word, esp. on the net, causes confusion. |
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eli poss wrote: What are you smoking? It must be really good! A trad climb is a climb typically protected with traditional gear that was used for free climbing before the popularization of bolts in climbing. This gear consists of stoppers (nuts, chocks, etc.), tricams, and SLCDs or cams. A sport climb is a climb that is protected by bolts or fixed pins. Climbs that utilize trad gear when it is provided by the rock and bolts where there aren't any features the place trad gear in are referred to as mixedTry again. Kennoyce has it exactly right. Bolt does not = sport |
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kennoyce wrote: As usual, Eli Poss has no idea what he's talking about. Believe it or not, trad stands for traditional and traditionally, bolts were used in climbing long before cams or nuts were even dreamed about. Trad generally means a climb that was esrablished from the ground up with all bolts and gear being placed on lead. Sport on the other hand is defined as a well protected bolted climb where you can focus on the movement. Mixed is not even a true rock climbing term (though it is being incorrectly used more and more frequently) and refers to climbing a combination of rock and ice.Don't confuse the guy. Saying things like that make you sound like nit picker. And no not all sport lines are bolted just so safely that you can focus on your movement. If you climb outside you will know that some of the lines require to pass the next bolt at waist line and such and can have quite committing moves that can result in a decker. Like I said do not confuse the youngin. |
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csproul wrote: Try again. Kennoyce has it exactly right. Bolt does not = sportStop confusing the dude. You sound like a nitpick too. Don't eat your young. |
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csproul wrote: Try again. Kennoyce has it exactly right. Bolt does not = sportDisclaimer: I'm not saying you are wrong I just want to get to the source of this confusion Can you cite an example in some written text, be it on paper or online, where a bolted climb is referred to as a trad climb. Because in any guidebooks I've seen, bolts=sport and no bolts(other than bolted belays)=trad. In addition, this is, to my knowledge, how climbs are categorized here on the Proj. Also, at many sport crags in Chattanooga, there are climbs where one can deck between in first bolt and the second bolt, and not just if they blow a clip. For example, the other day I was on Volgen Slab in Leda and I was only 2 ft above the first bolt and I had my foot on the wrong hold so I slipped and decked. Luckily it only resulted in giving me a scare and my partner having to lead it, but I had blown the second clip, I'd imagine I could be out for the season. |
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eli poss wrote: Can you cite an example in some written text, be it on paper or online, where a bolted climb is referred to as a trad climb.http://www.mountainproject.com/v/final-link/105739985 Ground-up vs top-down is the distinction. My pet-peeve is with R rated rap-bolted climbs that were TR'd into submission before the send. In my mind these would be candidates for retro-bolting/re-engineering, with input from the FA if at all possible. An example from the same crag: mountainproject.com/v/if-lo… Edit: I have no idea how the FA actually went down on this climb |
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The dude is completely confused now. |
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Daniel Winder wrote: mountainproject.com/v/final… Ground-up vs top-down is the distinction. My pet-peeve is with R rated rap-bolted climbs that were TR'd into submission before the send. In my mind these would be candidates for retro-bolting/re-engineering, with input from the FA if at all possible. An example from the same crag: mountainproject.com/v/if-lo… Edit: I have no idea how the FA actually went down on this climbI've never climbed there but based on the description it sounds like it is labeled as trad because the first pitch is a crack climb. But then again it is in Utah so... |
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Guy Keesee wrote:tsaint....awesome write up Guy! Yup, we've had three crags chopped in NE this past year but really seems to be just an old disgruntled man... the same one. |
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Did I miss it upstream? Has no one mentioned the B-Y yet? |
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eli poss wrote: I've never climbed there but based on the description it sounds like it is labeled as trad because the first pitch is a crack climb. But then again it is in Utah so...Look up trad climbing on wikipedia, see the last sentence of the second paragraph. |
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Eli.... This climb has only bolts for pro, 6 in 150 feet... you tell me if its a sport climb. |
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eli poss wrote: Technically, yes mixed is not the correct term but I have seen it in a few guide books and haven't seen our heard any other term for that. And while bolts were used before the invention of the modern chock, they weren't used nearly as much as they are today until the big sport climbing movement in Europe. Before then, climbing was generally limited to cracks or faces with features to place trad gear in. And while most sport climbs are well protected, not all are. The way I defined trad and sport is the way the terms are used in route beta like guidebooks or online databases like MP...... Mixed is the correct term, as in mixed protection. You have to be a pretty big jackass to look a your guidebook for a typically trad area and see a 200' route and see that it has 2 bolts so you leave all your gear at home because you thinks its a sport climb. If you do that.... well, you deserve what you get coming to you, or you see that its less than your limit, man up and send the shit, not bitch on the internet that something fooled you. |