Mountain Project Logo

Deploying Passive Gear

J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140
Alexander Blum wrote: For 95+% of nut placements, a gentle tug will set the piece well enough to assuage any concerns about a stopper lifting out. Yanking on every stopper until it has Is simply poor technique. I have to echo the sentiments expressed above, setting every nut so it is a huge pain in the ass to clean just screams inexperience/total lack of comfort on the sharp end. No, just no. Whatever makes you comfortable is not always the way you should do things. The decisions you make as part of a team often effect the other person. I really prefer to climb on triples, who wants to go climbing with me?! That being said, there are a lot of grey areas in climbing. This isn't one of them, there is a clear best practice for placing passive protection on lead. If a placement absolutely needs to be very firmly set to keep the leader safe, then the leader should do so. In all other cases the nut should be set with a gentle tug and slung with the appropriate length sling. There is no decrease in the safety of the leader, just an increase in the efficiency of the team.
FVCK me, i always forget I am on the literal net.

Oh, well.

Yeah, I was being dramatic because the point was you should make sure they are set. My general set is 1 or 2 pulls to set it. I'm a strong dude (not really, but it's the internet, I can be as strong as I want) so perhaps my 2 tugs are as good as my trad rack laden 200lb ass falling on it.

Again, the nuts should be set. "Fallen on" was for DRAMATIC EFFECT.

I feel bad for you guys that have nothing better to do than pick apart post on the internet. Perhaps you should go find something productive to do with your time.
Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

It helps to have a pair of large nuts. The best way is to first cup them in one hand while they're still near your harness, and then at a good stance after a short time, slowly and carefully pull them out. You don't want to pull them out too soon, for fear your partner might be shocked at your bold leading.

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143
J. Serpico wrote: Perhaps you should go find something productive to do with your time.
It's a nice thing to do during breaks at work, I enjoy it.

Communicating a strategy or practice via text using sarcasm, hyperbole or "dramatic effect" works very, very poorly. If you really only set a tiny, tiny fraction of the stoppers you place to death then I take it back, you totally have your lead head on straight.

The point remains though, stoppers should be set with a gentle tug unless absolutely necessary. This is the polar opposite of what you described with your dramatic effect. The thread is about advice on effectively placing stoppers, and you gave fundamentally bad advice (or expected the reader to know that you meant "gentle tug, with very rare exceptions", when you said "like I fell on it")
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

when i place nuts at cruxes where i may fall ... i often set them with a decent amount of pull

last thing i want is the rope movement pulling them loose

not to mention i often use nuts so that they dont take up the entire finger lock, which means the fingers are often stacked on top of the nuts which locks em in more

for moderate multi i may set them more gently ... unless i know the rope will wander a bit then i set them hard with extension or use a cam if it fits

at stuff at my limit, its my life on the line with the lead whipper ... if the second doesnt want to hang to get it out so that they can get a "top rope flash", they can choose not to climb with me

;)

Max Forbes · · Colorado · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 108

I split mine, and use the method goodhue described perfectly.

Kevin Neville · · Oconomowoc, WI · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 15

One minor additional point: Don't use tape to mark the racking biner. When you're rotating the biner so the gate opening is at the top, you want all the other wires to slide cleanly down to the bottom so you don't drop them, and tape just gives them something to snag on.

J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140
bearbreeder wrote:when i place nuts at cruxes where i may fall ... i often set them with a decent amount of pull last thing i want is the rope movement pulling them loose not to mention i often use nuts so that they dont take up the entire finger lock, which means the fingers are often stacked on top of the nuts which locks em in more for moderate multi i may set them more gently ... unless i know the rope will wander a bit then i set them hard with extension or use a cam if it fits at stuff at my limit, its my life on the line with the lead whipper ... if the second doesnt want to hang to get it out so that they can get a "top rope flash", they can choose not to climb with me ;)
This probably pretty accurately matches my usual technique, sans my hyberbole and dramatic effect.

Like you, I also base my set on the terrain and length of the sling. 100ft up, I can extend the sling, 20ft up, I go short and more set.

In fact, my wife (usually my second) often has the most trouble with cams I place, since I usually try to bottle neck them (unless the fit is just superb, then I just place and go, again, it all depends on the situation). She actually prefers to remove my chocks (i'd have said nuts, but then, that's what she said). Next tricams, and lastly cams. She's better than most at not fighting with tricams, but of all the gear she's had trouble with SLCDs often rank at the top. Go figure. FWIW, she usually just takes the nut tool and gives it a pop with the opposite hand. The bigger, hollow, nuts can be easily removed by placing the nut too inside the hollowed section.

People who have the most trouble removing nuts are my partners who try to yank them out.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
J. Serpico wrote: People who have the most trouble removing nuts are my partners who try to yank them out.
What can I say.. I forgot my nut tool for the 10th time!!
J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140
Bill Kirby wrote: What can I say.. I forgot my nut tool for the 10th time!!
When removing nuts, gentle hand is best (that's what he said).
Tronald Dump · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

not to mention i often use nuts so that they dont take up the entire finger lock, which means the fingers are often stacked on top of the nuts which locks em in more

Is aid?

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425

For the nut setting aspect I place them like I want them not to move and hold a fall, BUT I place them like I actually want them back on my rack.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

If I set a nut real hard it's cause I worry about falling into that nut. After that I choose a certain draw I think will hold falls better than others.

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

I had a partner connect the draw on a nut to his belay loop, climb almost above the piece, and dry hump until it popped. Felt bad about setting it so hard, but was cracking up at the technique. Worked like a charm.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
Tronald Dump wrote:not to mention i often use nuts so that they dont take up the entire finger lock, which means the fingers are often stacked on top of the nuts which locks em in more Is aid?
That's pretty much the same as standing on a cam in an offwidth isn't it?

In which case, it's still free climbing as long as no one else sees.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
Post a Reply to "Deploying Passive Gear"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.