How much is too much in the alpine?

I want to thank everybody for their opinions and their information. Some I have taken, some i have left behind. It started the logic center in my brain allowing for me look at things from multiple points of view which is what i needed. And rgold, after your sentiments and pictures i now understand why my mentors choose to move a little slower and a little more deliberately. Why are we out there if not too enjoy or surroundings.

Jeb

doligo wrote: Actually, using peroxide and rubbing alcohol on wounds can delay healing. Soap and water are the best when caring for wounds. You can carry a tiny sliver of what is left from your bar soap at the end of its lifecycle (the stuff that you normally throw away or old wives used to collect and put in a sock). Bandaids, gauze, sterile pads, little alcohol swabs and visine-size peroxide are pretty silly if you think about it. Are you really worried about tiny cuts and scrapes when you go climbing? If you are really serious about wounds, carry 1-2 maxipads (to stop bleeding), a vial of cayenne pepper (for blood clotting) and if you must, a vet wrap. Plus a pill or two of a narcotic of your choice for pain (enough to hold you over to bail/evac).

Actually, I'm not talking about the light scratches and lacerations that climbers typically ignore and do nothing about. I'm talking about bigger stuff, that requires dozens of stitches when you get back to civilization and to a doctor. I've spent quite a bit of time in ER's, and have had stitches numerous times. I live in the country, fairly far from the nearest town. I built the log cabin that I live in from scratch. Along with some serious climbing accidents in the back country, I've had axe wounds at home. Chain saw wounds. Splinters so deep that they had to be "surgically removed." Lots of stuff.
The dudes in ER all seem to agree that peroxide is good for the initial cleanout due to its bubbling action, but they recommend not repeating its use due to the fact that it hurts your own cells as well as killing the bacteria. Alcohol is not recommended, but is useful for sterilizing tools (pins, blades, etc.).
Deep in the backcountry, my entire palm was ripped off as part of the injuries that I sustained in a 60 foot fall, but it was still attached by flesh along one edge. I used my little bottle of peroxide to help remove all traces of dirt before putting the palm flap back down in position. I had plenty of other wounds, and I couldn't get to a Dr. for two days. The Dr's left the palm flap in place, and attributed the long term lack of infection to a "good initial cleanout." A 6-10 month healing process was reduced to about 2 months due to that flap staying in place.
Yes, soap is good too, but you need water along with it. I cleaned out an 8" axe wound with soap, filled the gap with antibiotic goob, and they were willing to stitch it together long after the normal allowable time period had elapsed.
"Delayed healing" is nothing compared to blood poisoning (septicemia). A granite crystal gave me a tiny puncture in my knee that I didn't clean, and totally ignored. A week later, a lymph node in my groin swelled up to the size of a golf ball, and I got a sudden fever. A few hours after that, I had a huge red streak up my thigh between the puncture and my groin, and my fever was up to 105F. Without antibiotics, I might have died in another day or two.
Cleaning wounds is not much hassle, can make a big difference, and is definitely worth the trouble.

A few smaller tricams can act as both small cams and mid sized nuts ... And in the smaller sizes afe quite light

Also they work in wet/dirty/icy cracks which might matter

Just make sure yr second is experience in cleaning em

And when you need to bail you wont cry over them like a left behind cam

The black, pink, red and brown are probably the most useful

;)

Martin le Roux wrote: Actually sports mix doesn't have a very high energy density, since it's 100% carbohydrate. .....here are some numbers I put together for an Alaskan trip. Sports mix (Gatorade powder) 3.56 kCal/100g Energy bars (Clif Builder Bars) ......

Thanks for that, I knew about the fat thing and that those soloing to the south pole ate lard, but I was under the misunderstanding that sports mix was more energy dense than bars. Thanks again.

Just an FYI, ice, really isn't recommended these days either. It stops the natural inflammatory (healing) process.

Since sucking chest wounds and arterial bleeding are the leading causes of preventable trauma death I really just take some bioocclusive dressings , some quick clot pads and powder, a few maxi pads for my "trauma kit". I have tincture of benzoin in my backpacking kit for tape adherence. It also keeps my sock liners stuck to my skin, which means the liner rubs the sock, not my skin. The only thing I'd use it on is blisters if I had one and had no choice but to lance it, and fill it with benzoin (yes, I know this is bad, but it's a last last last resort and I've only done it once).

I guess i have a sandwich baggy of compeed strips for flappers on my fingers. Usually those + some tape last a chunk of the day. Not worried about infection, just wound integrity.

Beyond that, everything else is usually stuff you would scavenge. I suppose the kit might grow if I was on an extended trip.

Tom Nyce wrote:Along with some serious climbing accidents in the back country, I've had axe wounds at home. Chain saw wounds. Splinters so deep that they had to be "surgically removed." Deep in the backcountry, my entire palm was ripped off as part of the injuries that I sustained in a 60 foot fall, but it was still attached by flesh along one edge. I had plenty of other wounds, and I couldn't get to a Dr. for two days. I cleaned out an 8" axe wound with soap. A granite crystal gave me a tiny puncture in my knee that I didn't clean, and totally ignored. A week later, a lymph node in my groin swelled up to the size of a golf ball, and I got a sudden fever. A few hours after that, I had a huge red streak up my thigh between the puncture and my groin, and my fever was up to 105F.

Dang, man.

You gots some luck.

To throw in to the knife discussion, I have one of these and I like it quite a bit:

amazon.com/Benchmade-Rescue…

Not very expensive (though the price has gone up), basically impossible to accidentally cut yourself in a fall (so zero worries in strapping it to my harness), pretty light at 1.2oz, and it cuts through soft goods like butter.

It can also serve double-duty for your medkit; it can mostly replace the blunt-nose scissors used for removing clothing around a wound. Although you can't use it for removing dead tissue or cutting right through boots, like some scissors.

I have a mini-leatherman now though for snow/ice days. I have been able to repair a broken crampon using the other crampon as a tool before, but honestly a crampon is a terrible multitool!

Patrick Shyvers wrote:Although you can't use it for removing dead tissue or cutting right through boots, like some scissors.

It's made for boots too:
jerkingthetrigger.com/wp-co…

youtube.com/watch?v=4fbPWsU…

Jeremy B. wrote: It's made for boots too: jerkingthetrigger.com/wp-co…

Wow! I had not seen that before, thanks!

Scott McMahon wrote:Water filter and purifier if you are near a source. Why carry all that aqua?

I carry a timy eyedropper of 2% tincture Iodine. 5 drops per qt and wait 30 min. This saves me pounds on the way up till I fill for the last time. Typically I will have a small bottle attached to my pack strap and just refill when I cross a stream or pass a lake. Then when I get to the last known water source I ushually fill my 2qt dromalite or whatever I have. The dropper is only an ounce or two and you don't have to waste time pumping with a water filter. It is extreemly light and efficient solution.
The best way to cut the weight of your rack is to use stupid light biners (like nano 23 and WC heliums)and super light runners. Later and with more $$ you can use Metolious' UL power cams. They are the lightest in the world (tcu version) as far as I know, and they are a great cam in thier own right.

Chris D wrote: Dang, man. You gots some luck.

On the "unlucky" side of things, I guess that i may have used up most of my "9 lives." Which is what some of my family say, lol.
On the other hand, I have been having adventures a really long time (I'm 55). I think if I told you about some of the things I've done (like solo/remote log cabin building for years at a time), you might think that I'm pretty lucky to be alive.