How much is too much in the alpine?
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I use electrical tape to wrap the razor blade and carry it in the bottom of my chalk bag. |
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I use electrical tape to wrap the razor blade and carry it in the bottom of my chalk bag. |
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We always do alpine routes car to car. Only did bivy once for Lone Eagle Peak, but now I'm not so sure that's the way to go. On all descents we ended back at our packs, so that allows you to carry any size pack. I have tried smaller packs, but the lack of comfortable straps or suspension just makes me very sore and worn out. Sticking with a nice, big pack allows better food, clothing, and more water. The hiking with a load is nothing with a good pack. I hate hanging things like helmets off my pack. |
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I'd like to suggest that "light is right" can be overdone. Some of it is being driven by speed climbers from the Alps who can rush up the Aiguille du Midi in their underwear and just call in the gendarmarie if they get a little chilly. Other aspects are promoted by master climbers who just solo or simul everything. If you can do that, great. But speed isn't safety if you can't go fast enough. In the back country you're on your own, and if the weather turns bad or you get off route or you have to retreat, you may need a tad more than the lightest possible kit to come home intact. Take a little more, rush a little less, and don't end up walking sightless among miracles. |
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^^^ That. |
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Ah yes, all those Frenchies rushing of up the Midi in their knickers and calling the Secours when they get chilly. If only I had a Euro for every shivering Frenchman I passed by with my gigantic Gregory sack loaded with every doo-dad known to climbing humanity. |
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I'm just putting in my vote for carrying a small first aid kit. In particular, filling a visene sized bottle with hydrogen peroxide can make a long term difference in the chances of how a large laceration heals up later with, or without infection. Climbers tape can hold together a big wound, and/or be an important part of a splint. Gauze weighs almost nothing, and holds a sterile pad in place. |
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Tom Nyce wrote:I'm just putting in my vote for carrying a small first aid kit. In particular, filling a visene sized bottle with hydrogen peroxide can make a long term difference in the chances of how a large laceration heals up later with, or without infection. Climbers tape can hold together a big wound, and/or be an important part of a splint. Gauze weighs almost nothing, and holds a sterile pad in place.Butterfly bandages. Very useful. |
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DannyUncanny wrote: I gotta disagree with all of those suggestions except the guide book one.And that is good. I think the thing is to try new ways from a lot of sources and find what works for you. :) (By the way, the 1mm cord, isn't so much a replacement for a knife but to ensure that even when you have forgotten the knife, you have a knife!) |
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Martin le Roux wrote: Maybe this is a troll but I'll bite anyway. If I'm doing the math correctly 1,000g of water (1 liter) + 75g of dissolved sports mix weighs 1,075g. That's the same weight as 1 liter of unflavored water and a 75g energy bar, and just about the same calorie content. Not that there's anything wrong with bringing sports mix instead of water, but unless you somehow invoke a nuclear reaction your pack won't be any lighter.Not a troll. Yes I know the math. I guess I should have said something more along then lines of, the increase in weight is almost zero yet you get to hydrate and eat at the same time. As the sports power is dried, I guess it has more joules per gram. Although in theory the water in the bar might count toward your water limit carried, I'm never decanted water from a water bottle thinking "I will take 5ml less because of the water in the bar". |
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Tom Nyce wrote:I'm just putting in my vote for carrying a small first aid kit. In particular, filling a visene sized bottle with hydrogen peroxide can make a long term difference in the chances of how a large laceration heals up later with, or without infection. Climbers tape can hold together a big wound, and/or be an important part of a splint. Gauze weighs almost nothing, and holds a sterile pad in place.My first aid kit is duct tape and a knife. If i am backpacking longer I start adding things to help with healing process. But on an alpine climb the first aid kit is there for catastrophe situations. ie broken bones, lots of blood loss. When it comes down to it, most things you need in situation like that are bandages(baselayers), splints( the stiff parts of you backpack), a stretcher(rope) and something to hold it all together(duct tape). Most wilderness first aid classes don't teach the use of hydrogen peroxide anymore, they have you wash the cut with water. When would you find it necessary to use a sterile pad in the back country? I a thinking maybe a third degree burn cause by lighting... when else? |
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David Coley wrote:As the sports power is dried, I guess it has more joules per gram.Actually sports mix doesn't have a very high energy density, since it's 100% carbohydrate. The highest energy densities come from foods with a lot of fat content. This doesn't make much difference on a 1-day climb, but here are some numbers I put together for an Alaskan trip. Sports mix (Gatorade powder) 3.56 kCal/100g Energy bars (Clif Builder Bars) 3.86 Dark chocolate 5.50 Cashew nuts 5.71 Macadamia nuts 7.14 Butter 7.17 |
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Tom Nyce wrote:I'm just putting in my vote for carrying a small first aid kit. In particular, filling a visene sized bottle with hydrogen peroxide can make a long term difference in the chances of how a large laceration heals up later with, or without infection. Climbers tape can hold together a big wound, and/or be an important part of a splint. Gauze weighs almost nothing, and holds a sterile pad in place.Actually, using peroxide and rubbing alcohol on wounds can delay healing. Soap and water are the best when caring for wounds. You can carry a tiny sliver of what is left from your bar soap at the end of its lifecycle (the stuff that you normally throw away or old wives used to collect and put in a sock). Bandaids, gauze, sterile pads, little alcohol swabs and visine-size peroxide are pretty silly if you think about it. Are you really worried about tiny cuts and scrapes when you go climbing? If you are really serious about wounds, carry 1-2 maxipads (to stop bleeding), a vial of cayenne pepper (for blood clotting) and if you must, a vet wrap. Plus a pill or two of a narcotic of your choice for pain (enough to hold you over to bail/evac). |
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doligo wrote: Actually, using peroxide and rubbing alcohol on wounds can delay healing. Soap and water are the best when caring for wounds.This. Stop using rubbing alcohol and peroxide. Not only do they sting but they suck. |
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As others already agreed, Rich said it well: |
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Wow, rgold. Post of the week, if not the month! Great photos, outstanding sentiment described in that quote. Thanks! |
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Rich, I finally got the backpacking experience right when I went to the Wind Rivers last August and agree wholeheartedly that it's the best way to do it. It was simply lovely being up there for multiple days. |
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Sometimes the only way an objective happens is if the climb is done quickly and with minimal gear. Even if you're camping at the base of the route, what you carry can impact the probability of completing your goal. Its easy to stand back and pontificate about the finer things in life but that seems to avoid the question of preparedness, strategy, and just priorities in general. I'll take compressing a climb into a day if it means I get to climb as opposed to working. |
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doligo wrote: Actually, using peroxide and rubbing alcohol on wounds can delay healing.It seems hydrogen peroxide doesn't work. I don't think you can put rubbing alcohol into any kind of wound. But beyond that... Antiseptics on Wounds: An Area of Controversy Anna Drosou, MD, Anna Falabella, MD, Robert S. Kirsner, MD medscape.com/viewarticle/45… The use of antiseptics on wounds is currently being viewed with skepticism. Results from in-vitro studies have shown that antiseptics are toxic not only against bacteria and other microorganisms but also against human cells essential to the wound healing response. These findings resulted in a series of animal and human studies in order to evaluate the in-vivo activity of antiseptics. However, it seems that in human subjects, pronounced cytotoxicity, found in vitro, was not confirmed. In the majority of clinical trials, antiseptics appear to be safe and were not found to negatively influence wound healing. Their antimicrobial efficiency, with the exception of hydrogen peroxide, seems satisfactory as well. ... Antiseptics need not be omitted from the therapeutic armamentarium of wound care. In patients and wound types with high risk of infection, antiseptics may be used to prevent wound infection that would have deleterious effects on wound healing. Antiseptics present advantages over topical antibiotics, since they do not cause the emergence of drug-resistant bacteria and have broader antimicrobial spectrum and lower sensitization rates. In conclusion, after review of the literature, most antiseptics, especially newer formulations, appear to be relatively safe and efficient in preventing infection in human wounds. The advantages of antiseptics on wounds may outweigh possible disadvantages, and their position in wound care management should be reconsidered. |
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Dark Chocolate |