How much is too much in the alpine?

I like to bring one ace bandage and don't bring a first aid kit (bad luck). Headlamp or two very light weight led lights. Going down by the light of a phone or lighter works and a lighter is better than nothing. Even though I don't bring first aid kit I do plan on the worse case scenario. I bring a bolt kit sometimes with four bolts 3/8" and 1/4" bolts could be up to six or eight and 2.25" is long enough bolt usually. Water is not a big deal unless 90+ degrees. gummies and anything like that will keep my mouth wet. Four food bars each and a gallon will have to be rationed if 90+ degrees. It can really help out the safety of an injured partner not able to move to have a bolt kit. Allows rescuer to go with maximum gear to get help. I have not had to use bolt kit yet. Clothing lightest wind shell possible. no cotton clothing including socks. large plastic bags poke hole for head and arms if needed to use. It also works to keep a person dry sitting on one. Plastic bags don't let body heat out and is similar to how a scuba suit works. wet and sticky but you won't die from hypothermia. Rack is none of my business but I cannibalize my gear beaners instead of bringing more draw gear and beaners. An extra belay device is good because dropping one can really crimp the day.

matt c. wrote: The whole reason you where a helmet to protect your head. What happens if you helment get hit by a rock, where does the razor blade go? I guess that i would give you an opportunity to use the sterile dressing you like to hump around. I use trango's Piranha to keep pesky things like razor blades out of my head... A mcDonald's straw inside the helmet is like gold, it allow you to get water from seeps that normally would be out of reach. Space blanket one per person, the don't work well as a cuddle blanket.

This is what the razor blade looks like. It even comes with a protective cardboard sleeve. It cuts rope and webbing like butter. I've also used it to cut salami and apples. There is zero risk of it hitting or cutting your head.



Also on another note, I recently sprained my ankle really badly high up on a route and 16 miles from the car. I happened to have bendable (5000 series) aluminum stays in my pack that made an excellent splint. Basically you can shape it to your joint much like a SAM splint, only more rigid and it was already a part of my pack.

Preparing to bivy and preparing to survive an unplanned bivy are completely different. For the unplanned bivy, all you need is body insulation appropriate to the season (for survival, not comfort!) and weather protection (forget the pads, think more like a Rab Xenon clipped to your harness rather than a Das Parka). Descending through the night is better than bivvying, but this is not always possible.

Here's some ideas:

Take a smaller/lighter sack when walking in and strap stuff on the outside

Put sports powder in the water so you getting food at the same time as water without any more weight


Often equipment can have more than one function: why take a duvet jacket just for the bivvy when an inverted sleeping bag will do almost as well


Don't carry the whole guide book around


A length 1mm cord can be used instead of a knife to cut through ropes, cords and slings by using a sawing motion. Always keep a length wrapped around a tie-in point on your chalk bag, or tied through the air vents of your helmet (you can also use it to stop your head torch failing off if you take a big fall




(all photos from multipitchclimbing.com)

A handful of Jolley Ranchers really helps with dry mouth and are much lighter than an extra liter of water. A form of psychological drinking.

David Coley wrote:Here's some ideas: Take a smaller/lighter sack when walking in and strap stuff on the outside Put sports powder in the water so you getting food at the same time as water without any more weight Often equipment can have more than one function: why take a duvet jacket just for the bivvy when an inverted sleeping bag will do almost as well Don't carry the whole guide book around A length 1mm cord can be used instead of a knife to cut through ropes, cords and slings by using a sawing motion. Always keep a length wrapped around a tie-in point on your chalk bag, or tied through the air vents of your helmet (you can also use it to stop your head torch failing off if you take a big fall (all photos from multipitchclimbing.com)

I gotta disagree with all of those suggestions except the guide book one.

I was really excited about the razor blade trick but thought about it for a while and decided it was not ideal.

DannyUncanny wrote: This is what the razor blade looks like. It even comes with a protective cardboard sleeve. It cuts rope and webbing like butter. I've also used it to cut salami and apples. There is zero risk of it hitting or cutting your head.

and this is what a broken helmet looks like.
broken

Notice there was an frontal impact that broke the outer plastic of the helmet and pushed the plastic and foam towards the head. The foam in the helmet breaks down and causes the impact to be distributed to a wider area. This causes a reduction of force to one spot allowing the head to work after such a hit.

Ok, now imagine there is a razor blade at the area of impact. The outer plastic bends in hits the razor blade. The blade gets pushed into the skull. This does not allow the foam to distribute the force and it is concentrated in a single spot. Or if it is a glancing blow, the razor may not be directly driven into the head, but the metal will still be in you head ( i think the force of a rock would cause the metal to pass through your cardboard sheath).

also, a razor blade can't be use as a bottle opener like the piranha...

Mine is taped to the back brim where there is no foam, and I don't bring glass bottles into the alpine. If I did I can open them with a nut key or carabiner.

These razor really have almost no way to do any serious damage to your head. Even in the convoluted situation you've outlined, you end up cutting your scalp. No way is that thing going through any bone. And if you're getting smashed by rocks you are probably getting worse than a scalp cut anyways.

David Coley wrote:Here's some ideas: A length 1mm cord can be used instead of a knife to cut through ropes, cords and slings by using a sawing motion.

does this work to cut a rope when its wet/ frozen?

matt c. wrote: does this work to cut a rope when its wet/ frozen?

In this circumstance, a small razor blade, whether on your helmet or not vs. a 1mm cord you are talking about fractions of an ounce here! If you are counting hundredths of an ounce you probably have other things to worry about lol

Razor blade will be like 10 times faster maybe more and give a cleaner cut

I'm with Matt, Piranha is super compact and its weight is pretty negligible. The only drawback vs. razor is it costs 20x more I guess... A question to Danny, after you use it, how do you tape it back to the helmet? You'd have to bring extra fresh tape, no?

Having a small pocket knife is way more useful, IMO than a razor blade. If you have to bail and cut cordage, you can use it multiple times easier than a blade. You can use it to cut climbing tape, cut wood or make emergency chopsticks (if you forgot your spoon/spork like I have).

I have the Trango Piranha as well - love it. It is attached to a Metolius locker with a loop of 6mm cord for a prusik. I carry it on my harness for oh-sh@*t occasions. What if I loose it, drop it, forget it?

A peice of Duct Tape across the spine works great at holding it in place. It is small, out of the way, and I do not have a fear of it causing damage to my helmet or me. It is a back up for the Piranha.

I've only used it once, but had no problems with it sticking back where I unstuck it from. Don't even need to take the helmet off to get to it, for it is right at the brim.

doligo wrote:A question to Danny, after you use it, how do you tape it back to the helmet? You'd have to bring extra fresh tape, no?

I slip it back under the old tape. There is a little slot in the back of my helmet. I've had a piece of electrical tape wrapped around there for about 5 years.

If you plan on climbing the the W ridge and descending the cascadian I would recommend sleeping at the TH and going car to car.

Make sure you have a good idea of what the entrance to the cascadian looks like from the summit traverse. Easy to head down one of the other couloirs (some of which are better to descend anyway?)

You can simul-climb the whole route no problem. Sometimes more pro and lots of slings can be worth the weight to be able to put down larger blocks of simul-climbing.

David Coley wrote:Put sports powder in the water so you getting food at the same time as water without any more weight

Maybe this is a troll but I'll bite anyway. If I'm doing the math correctly 1,000g of water (1 liter) + 75g of dissolved sports mix weighs 1,075g. That's the same weight as 1 liter of unflavored water and a 75g energy bar, and just about the same calorie content.

Not that there's anything wrong with bringing sports mix instead of water, but unless you somehow invoke a nuclear reaction your pack won't be any lighter.

Josh Allred wrote:Hydrate day before and morning of. Carry less water that way. Edit: Of course this depends on objective.

Pre hydrating really isn't effective. In fact, in most cases you are where you should have been.

Your body really can't store a ton of water, nor can it process huge amounts. So drinking a gallon at the base of a climb so you don't have to drink all day is pretty useless.

But, hey, we are in a time when Gatorade makes lots of money selling hydration. So naturally people believe they can head dehydration off by prehydrating or guzzling water.

Personally, if there are options to filter, i bring the filter. Giving me an unlimited supply for about 1lb of weight. There are now smaller filters making the tradeoff even greater.

I wouldn't swap cams for hexes in most cases. I've found Colin Haley's judgement of this to match my own.

If you are sub-tree line, a small tea light is essential to starting any sort of fire. The lighter won't be worth much without it.
Wear a light colored long sleeve poly shirt with a hood rather than a short sleeve tech shirt - keeps you cooler in the heat (less perspiration = bringing less water) and a much wider temperature comfort range. Add a 2oz wind anorak like a Tachyon or a 6oz rain shell like a Helium and a 4oz ultralight down vest and you're ready for most anything. Long light colored lightweight pants for the same reasons.

There are some great LED lights that clip on a visor or hat.

Most of the advice in this thread is sound. That stuff about using a lighter for lighting and bringing a bolt kit to the North Cascades is not. No offense to the poster, but that just doesn't seem like wisdom born of any experience in the N. Cascades.

J. Serpico wrote: Pre hydrating really isn't effective.

Yeah there is a max your body can hold so why not go in with the max your body can hold. I know for me I have always performed better starting and staying well hydrated throughout the day. Carry on.

Josh Allred wrote: Yeah there is a max your body can hold so why not go in with the max your body can hold. I know for me I have always performed better starting and staying well hydrated throughout the day. Carry on.

I think the key is you are starting out "properly" hydrated. Most people probably have chronic dehydration due to not really drinking water and the proliferation of caffeinated drinks, comsumed throughout the day.

Anyway, your point is valid. Start out properly hydrated and you'll be less dehydrated throughout the day.

BigFeet wrote:I have the Trango Piranha as well - love it. It is attached to a Metolius locker with a loop of 6mm cord for a prusik. I carry it on my harness for oh-sh@*t occasions. What if I loose it, drop it, forget it? A peice of Duct Tape across the spine works great at holding it in place. It is small, out of the way, and I do not have a fear of it causing damage to my helmet or me. It is a back up for the Piranha. I've only used it once, but had no problems with it sticking back where I unstuck it from. Don't even need to take the helmet off to get to it, for it is right at the brim.

Any sort or cord/webbing is super easily severed with a couple blows of a rock onto said cord/rope/webbing as it's draped over the sharpest edge of rock you can find. The frayed end is a bit ragged, and taking one knife is totally fine, but "if you drop it" which is more of a fear than a reality in most situations really, you don't need a box cutter ducked taped to yourself as a back up, seems as if you're over doing the whole backup thing really