Clove Hitch Fail
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Thanks for the play by play Mark. |
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I tie in to a two-point anchor with the rope using a clove hitch on a master point. I always dress the knot. If the knot's not dressed, it's not complete. Thanks for sharing. |
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Scott McMahon wrote:Thanks for the play by play Mark. I have to say though that I don't consider that knot "tied". Sure it's in the shape of a clove hitch, but that knot is only a knot when you dress it. Hell pretty much all knots are like that, but ESPECIALLY a clove. No judgement, but I couldn't imagine tying a knot in that fashion on a climb. If you aren't setting a clove, you haven't tied it.Couldn't agree more. I imagine (hope) the OP had it a little tighter than what I showed. I did it like that just for the example. |
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Thanks Mark, I played around with it a bit too and its easy to get the clove-hitch back if you set up the rope like it is in the pictures. Here's a picture from the other side. Note in both these pics I am tied in at the bottom. |
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Scott McMahon wrote:Thanks for the play by play Mark. I have to say though that I don't consider that knot "tied". Sure it's in the shape of a clove hitch, but that knot is only a knot when you dress it. Hell pretty much all knots are like that, but ESPECIALLY a clove. No judgement, but I couldn't imagine tying a knot in that fashion on a climb. If you aren't setting a clove, you haven't tied it.Hitches aren't Knots. Hitches are releasable, Knots are not. Semantics I know, just food for thought. |
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So many lulz to be harvested from this thread - good thing my combine is back from the shop. |
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What/why/how did you use a tripled length sling??? |
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I was a bit confused by this as well. |
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Like most of everyone else, I'd assumed you incorrectly tied your clove hitch, but I tried re-creating the image you posted, and then sliding the rope together to see what knot it formed- a clove hitch. |
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infiniteforests wrote:...cinch your clove hitches tightly before weighting them.Just came across this article about the care and feeding of your clove hitches: guidetricksforclimbers.com/… |
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Made sure to give my cloves some extra loving this weekend. |
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Scott McMahon wrote: I have to say though that I don't consider that knot "tied". Sure it's in the shape of a clove hitch, but that knot is only a knot when you dress it. Hell pretty much all knots are like that, but ESPECIALLY a clove. No judgement, but I couldn't imagine tying a knot in that fashion on a climb. If you aren't setting a clove, you haven't tied it.Well, I have to admit, pretty sure I had "tied" a lot of cloves like that. Why? Several reasons: I want to get my 2nd moving quickly, I am planning on adjusting the length of rope out to get a comfortable length after my second is climbing- might as well leave it a bit loose, I was pretty sure if I fell on a loose clove it would tighten automatically and I would be safe. I usually clip in at two points, but I would bet that out of all the pitches I have climbed I have done exactly as the OP once or twice. I appreciate the OP posting this, I learned something, I learned not to be careless, the clove is not fool proof. You can rest easy knowing you've at least saved one other climber from a similar accident. |
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TylerPhillips wrote: Hitches aren't Knots. Hitches are releasable, Knots are not. Semantics I know, just food for thought.I thought the difference was hitches had to be done around an object (not that they are releasable) where as knots did not. probably just more semantics and using 'releasable' in a way i necessarily wouldnt. words... |
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hitches are considered part of the knot "family," but need some other object to hold their form. |
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It does not fail |
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I've tried to form the coils with one hand to complete a clove hitch in the past, and ended up with a munter. I would weight the hitch while backed up on PAS, and the munter hitch would unravel and snake wildly down the spine or the gate of the carabiner. Perhaps you're mistaking the clove hitch with something else. This doesn't fall apart like in the picture when you do it correctly. At least, not in MY experience. |
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hikingdrew wrote: ...cinch your clove hitches tightly before weighting them. Just came across this article about the care and feeding of your clove hitches: guidetricksforclimbers.com/… That link is dead. The article can now be found at: http://guidetricksforclimbers.com/use-and-abuse-of-the-clove-hitch/ Sorry for bumping this old thread. |
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Typical humans. find something to blame and you are all in regardless if it is the correct scapegoat. In this case the scapegoat is the non locking biner. |
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Stan Pitcher wrote: I made several mistakes at the top of a climb as I prepared to belay my partner and took a huge fall as a result. Posting this in the hope that no others will do the same! Mistake 1: At top of climb (big ledge), I did not clip the chains. Mistake 2: I clove hitched to a non-locking biner (tripled shoulder-length sling with neutrinos). Mistake 3: I didn't cinch the clove hitch tight. Mistake 4: I hadn't backed up the clove hitch. I always do this before going off belay/belaying but had got in bad habit of sometimes not doing it until I'd adjusted the length. Then I stepped to the ledge edge below and left of the chains (where I would be able to see my partner climbing) and happy with the length, I leaned back a little and instantly went flying! Luckily, I didn't get hurt too bad and I did have a helmet on. I don't remember hitting my head but my helmet had cracks inside. Somehow the un-tightened clove hitch had opened the gate and the biner had come off the tripled sling. The biner was still on the rope. Be safe out there! This is more concerning than loosely tied clove hitch. |
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It is far from clear what the full set-up was when the cloved installation failed. The primary, perhaps only, mistake was the loose clove hitch, which, as you found, is an accident waiting to happen. Fully-tightened clove hitches are reliable and don't need to be backed up. Biners that are going to move around should be lockers, biners that are stationary in the anchor rigging can be non-lockers. I agree with Nick that one has to be especially careful with mini biners. |