Beginner back country in Colorado

I have been skiing more or less for 20 years. Almost completely resort skiing. I haven't skied in about 5 years, mostly because anything I could find at resorts started to get repetitive. Recently I was introduced to Alpine Climbing, and I want to extend this to alpine skiing.

Where is a good place to get back into the sport in a new setting? I also have a friend who wants to start doing back country skiing, but he is completely new to skiing. I can teach him no problem, but I don't know where to go. I was thinking of a nice low angle at the base, and a slightly steeper higher up. So we could hike halfway up a couple of times, then take a full run.

Eliot,

A great path to getting into back country skiing is to hire a mountain/ski guide. An avalanche education class is also basically a necessity.

Would love to help you get where your wanting to go safely and efficiently - please message me if this interests you or google/contact the Colorado Mountain School.

- Brent

Yeah, Eliot, start with an AIARE 1 course...24 hours and a great introduction to playing safely in the backcountry.

Hiring a certified guide would be another great step. I think, honestly, doing an AIARE 1...with a day or two follow-up/refresher with a certified guide is an ideal start to your backcountry career.

There are several good, certified ski guides on the Front Range. A couple at CMS (Mike Soucy, being one), Mike Arnold at Aspen Expeditions/ClimbingLife Guides...

Happy to suggest more if you're into it.

If you're going to pull the trigger, spend your money wisely--ask around and spend your cash on an AMGA-certified guide!

RC

I'm definitely interested in doing it safely. I plan on taking a WFR course soon too.

If you're interested in going into the canyon to climb some day Brent, you can sell me on your ski guiding abilities. :)

I wouldn't bother hiring a guide, most of them are not qualified to teach, only to get your ass up and down safely.

A AIARE 1 course is definitely recommended and a good place to start however before you commit check into the courses provided by Friends of Berthoud Pass that they hold every winter before dropping coin on a full course.
berthoudpass.org/what-we-do…

A huge source of info can also be found over on TGR forums but think twice before asking any question on there. They do not suffer fools gladly so use the search function and read up on weather, slides, and gear then introduce yourself. Lots of great people over there in CO and elsewhere willing to help out a jong.

Check out a trip up to the Arestua Hut (Guinn Mtn). Its a trail that runs along the Eldora ski area and then climbs up to the hut. About a 4 mile trip.

You can spend the morning or day practicing turns at Eldora and then hit the trail up to the hut for a night. The ski down in the morning is fun.

It's in the trees so there shouldn't be avalanche concerns, but double check as it's been years since I've been there. This is how I learned to tele when I was going to CU back in the 80's.

Have fun and be safe.
Jason

Goatboy:

Interesting you feel guides are not qualified to teach, but you then go on to suggest he take an AIARE 1. Who do you think teaches a lot of avy courses? Often times they are taught by guides.

Guides are in the business of risk management. What are avalanche courses teaching? Risk management.

Cheers

Brent Butler

The guides teaching a avalanche course will go into much more detail than a guide you hire to take you up and down a peak. I'm not dissing regular guides but there is big difference between the two disciplines.

When you take a friend out climbing for the first time do you dump everything you know on them on the first day? Most people teach the basics and alert them to the obvious dangers. You will get the same introduction from a ski guide but you will gain a lot more education and awareness through a certified avy course.

Friends of Berthoud Pass is a good place to start. A lot of good instruction, a basic free course in a classroom and an extended course out on the pass and if you are lucky you will make some new friends who will help you cut your teeth out in the BC.

Hey Eliot,

You get what you pay for. Taking an inexpensive class from the Colorado Mountain Club and/or Friends of Berthoud Pass will be a great starter...but they are a far cry from an AIARE 1. To be clear, the AIARE 1 is not a "certified" class or a certification...it's a 24-hour INTRO to avalanche safety/decision making in the backcountry. The best place to start.

I'll second Brent's suggestion/observation that an AIARE 1 taught by a certified guide is the best combo. I've been talking with the AIARE guys and some guides about the idea of a an "AIARE +1"...the idea being you do an AIARE 1 early in the season (Decemberish), then get out for a day of ski-touring later in the year, after you've had the chance to digest what you've learned earlier. This trends towards what, I think, "goatboy" is suggesting--avalanche instruction but in a field context and with some time to soak it in.

Great reading to start with: Bruce Tremper's "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain". Well worth the cash.

Happy to chat more about this if you want. Oh, and just some points of reference--Markus Beck at Alpine World Ascents is an IFMGA guide who teaches AIARE 1s. Eli Helmuth is also IFMGA, teaches his AIARE 1s thru his guide company, Climbing Life Guides. Mike Arnold (soon to be IFMGA) and Amos Whiting (IFMGA) teach AIARE 1s up in Aspen with Aspen Expeditions. With these guys you get fantastic teachers, internationally certified mountain guides (ask around, you won't find many teaching AIARE 1s), fun dudes, and you'll have a relationship with a guide who can take you to the next level, be that in ski-mountaineering skills, ski performance, or just general alpinism. You will not find this with CMC/FOBP--though both those organizations are great.

PM me if you want to rap. Happy to offer you more recommendations in a private message, too. Beware...lots of "guides" and "avy experts" out there...not that many certified mountain guides.

Good luck, boss, and pray for another good winter!

RC

Oh, and to the notion that guides don't teach...that might be true(ish) in Europe, but I can assure you the American Mountain Guides Association emphasizes teaching in its ski, alpine, and rock curricula. Candidates are given instruction in the courses and evaluated during the final exams on their ability to teach--and their ability to adapt their teaching to the needs/learning style of a particular student.

If your guide is grumpy, burned out, taciturn...don't bother. There are plenty of good ones willing to teach, talk, share info, and have a good time.

Find one. Worth it. The AMGA has a list of certified guides on its website...and I can certainly help you dig up a certified guide to help get you dialed!

RC

The front range has very good bc skiing. Berthoud pass, Vail pass, RMNP, St Mary's Glacier are good starting points. The bc skiers that you'll observe in these locations run the gamet from savy experts to complete knuckleheads.

The avalanche danger in CO can't be overstated. I agree with RC and BB that a AIARE L1 from a reputable guide is invaluable. RC listed some of the superstars of avalanache education in CO. A weekend spent with anyone RC mentioned is worth seasons of experience trying to figure it out on your own.

I suggest you read ever book you can get your hands on about avalanche safety and skills for bc skiing and ski mountaineering.

A next step is finding some BC ski partners that you trust, can learn good habits from and that you share similar values and risk tolerance with. You might meet partners on MP forum, FOBP, the cmc or in a parking lot. Be selective who you choose to ski with in the bc your life depends on it.

Going out skiing with a reputable guide is a great idea too. The guides RC mentioned take small groups out on weekend bc workshops where you get to practice the skills you were introduced to the your avalanche class in the field with an expert on hand to increase your margin of safety.

The cmc offers a "ski mountaineering" course that is a decent intro to intermediate bc touring. You can find ski mountaineering course offered by San Juan mtn guides and probably others as well that look to teach bc skills with a reputable guide outfit.

Going on a guided hut trip in Canada or europe is great way to get lots of high quality bc skiing in incredible terrain.

Have fun. It won't be long till the snow is blowing.

I definitely agree with taking an AIARE Level 1 class.

Before you do though, REI and Friends of Berthound offer free Avalanche Awareness classes. These are usually a 2 hour lecture on the basics of avalanche. It would help you to be a little prepared for the AIARE class and they're free. Usually people take the Level 1 certification then every season take a free avalanche awareness class to keep things fresh

Also practice with your beacon/probe/shovel. Keystone and other resorts have beacon practice areas or you can do it with friends.

As far as where to ski, try the book "Climbing and Skiing Colorado's Mountains" by Ben Conners. Skiing Pike's Peak is very popular and a good stepping stone away from the resorts since you can do shuttle runs on the tollway

Avy 1 class... I recommend Eli from Climbing Life Guides in Estes who also is a contributor here.

guide.climbinglife.com/inde…

Like everyone said CO has some fantastic BC skiing, but our snowpack is considered some of the most dangerous. We lose alot of friends every year. Get the gear, take the class.

Also get "staying alive in avalanche terrain" by Bruce Temper. Ben Connor's book is an amazing book...that I wouldn't recommend to a new BC rider. It's basically a list of the 50 best descents, many of which I probably wouldn't undertake.

You might be able to find them at different price points depending on if they are in print, but Front Range Descents, the new RMNP guide book, Indian Peak Descents, Berthoud Pass are much more along the lines of what you are looking for. Some of them are going for crazy prices which is just gouging, but you should be able to find them possibly in local store. Brian Litz has a few backcountry touring books as well for touring and hut trips as well. Lou Dawson's 14er's books indicate ski descents and he has "Dawson's guide to Colorado Backcountry". But if you can find Front Range Descents at a descent price that's probably the best locally for the FR. Will alot of out of prints this guy here is a great one.

amazon.com/Indian-Peak-Desc…

Grand Lines is a great source for Berthoud pass too, but George passed last year in an avy accident. Not sure if the site was picked up by anyone.
berthoudbackcountrybeta.com/

Another good site online for info on avalanches, gear, and ski guide books is Lou Dawson's Wild Snow.
wildsnow.com

Thanks for all the info. I am definitely going to do the avalanche courses for sure now. I've been in the mountains almost all my life, and I have yet to hear as much avalanche safety being preached in the last decade(probably) than I have in the past few days.

Thanks for all the answers, this is a great set of resources to start from.

What kind of gear are you planning on getting?

Look into Rossignol S3s and Dynafit bindings. Because of the S3s 'early rise', get them longer than usual. I am 5'11 160 and 186s seem perfect.

Bent Gate Mountaineering is one of the better specialty shops for getting setup correctly. Of course, Neptunes is another one.

Eliot Augusto wrote:I've been in the mountains almost all my life, and I have yet to hear as much avalanche safety being preached in the last decade(probably) than I have in the past few days..

This is Colorado...one of the most dangerous snow packs and I'd venture that most of us and the people you'll meet when you get out more have lost friends and acquaintances.

The pack isn't really "safe" until spring, and even then there are gambles. You can ride safely all winter, but knowing terrain traps, how weather effects snow, and the pack itself is huge. You can guarantee that the first big snow in october and november will set us up with a horrific layer of depth hoar that will last all season.

It's a lifetime learning curve and even then there are two types of avy terrain. Safe or you don't know.

Good luck!

Another option if you're just starting out on AT gear is to spend a day at one of the resorts that allow uphill access. See ussma.org/resort-uphill-pol… for a list. Obviously this won't prepare you for backcountry terrain and snow conditions but you'll be able to practice getting in & out of bindings, attaching & removing skins, etc. It could also be a good option for your friend who's never skied before, since he'd have access to groomed slopes. Starting out in the backcountry could be very challenging for someone who's never skiied before.

Martin le Roux wrote:Another option if you're just starting out on AT gear is to spend a day at one of the resorts that allow uphill access. See ussma.org/resort-uphill-pol… for a list. Obviously this won't prepare you for backcountry terrain and snow conditions but you'll be able to practice getting in & out of bindings, attaching & removing skins, etc. It could also be a good option for your friend who's never skied before, since he'd have access to groomed slopes. Starting out in the backcountry could be very challenging for someone who's never skiied before.

I agree. We discussed it and nixed the idea of him learning in back country. So we'll probably hit the resorts for early winter and I'll change it up later in the season.

There really is no "perfect way" on learning how to ski BC or at a resort, they are either going to love it or hate it.

My first trip was on Loveland Pass on telemark skis in 2' of powder.
It was the most fun I ever had being miserable and I was hooked for life.