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Swolen PIP Joints

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namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35

so anyone had this same problem?
doctor didnt see any fractures or dislocation through xray, however joints are swolen and i cant straighten out my fingers or make a fist.
Currently doing PT twice a week.
if anyone have same problem and had it fixed, please gives advice.
if you still habe it, you can follow this post for updates and feel free to ask questions.

pip joints

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

How any joints are swollen. How many days/week did you climb before the injury. Was there a traumatic event?

namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35

middle and ring fingers on both hand. i was climbing 4-5 days a week and atleast 2-4 hours a day. Plus during the cold season which multiply the injury. Im not sure if it was a traumatic event, i just remember setting a couple route that involve dynoing to small crimps and i didnt understand the concept of open crimp back then.
i was cranking until one day i realized that i couldnt straighten it out and started taking care of it since.

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

It sounds like an unusual overuse injury. If it were me I'd take a lot of time off and consider not going back to plastic.

namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35

im down to one session a week and cannot allow my self any less climbing than that unfortunately :(
also unfortunately live in louisiana so only thing to climb is plastic

can i die now?

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
namburger wrote:however joints are swolen and i cant straighten out my fingers or make a fist.
Mine too for about 20 years.
namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35
Darren Mabe wrote: Mine too for about 20 years.
20 years???
how is your climbing progressing? did the injury gets worse?
what do you do to cope?
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Ugh... above has been the bane of my climbing life.

1. Rest, Rest, Rest, like serious rest. 3-6 mo off type rest
2. Start icing nightly
3. You likely have trigger finger
4. NEVER accept a cortisone shot in your finger... find another Dr..
5. Stop all climbing immediately (u did that though in step 1) and furthermore stop climbing on Plastic. Never expect to crimp a plastic hold again really well without potentially injuring your fingers again. If and when after months of rest you start climbing again... go with EASY 5.4/5.5/5.6 routes that have ONLY open handed slopey/juggy holds. Avoid sharp edges.
6. Climb well below your level for at least 6 months to a YEAR. Yup... you're potentially talking about taking years off. And even after months/years off, and months training back into it, one bad move or trying to pull at your limit and you could easily re-injur and set yourself back another year or two.
7. Good Luck. This injury ruined my hard climbing career.

PS When my fingers swell and I try to close my middle knuckles tightly it feels like someone is inserting a large needle straight into the top of my knuckles. It's about an 8/10. This is after years of injuries though...

jim.dangle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 5,882
namburger wrote:im down to one session a week and cannot allow my self any less climbing than that unfortunately :( also unfortunately live in louisiana so only thing to climb is plastic can i die now?
If you are really that serious about climbing then you should follow Mo's advice and take some decent time off. Climbing injured is not only way less fun but the royal road to chronic injury and ultimately to a vastly diminished climbing career. Even the pros take months off with injuries. It's the nature of the beast. Especially on plastic.

You will not get better without rest.

Jim
namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35
Morgan Patterson wrote:4. NEVER accept a cortisone shot in your finger... find another Dr..
why not?

and thanks all for the helps.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
namburger wrote: why not? and thanks all for the helps.
Coritzone is a temporary solution.It works by breaking down your tissues. It will weaken your tendons and then you build them back up. In the long run though it has seriously harmed my middle digits. They are the only ones I got the shots in and the only ones i have cronic long term issues with. The other digits kinda orbit around okay, my middle fingers will put me out months at a time and wont even be able to make a fist if they are acting up. And I followed all the Sports Dr. recommendations still didn't help. Also have found a lot of other similar stories thus... just don't do... find another dr.
namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35
Morgan Patterson wrote: Coritzone is a temporary solution.It works by breaking down your tissues. It will weaken your tendons and then you build them back up. In the long run though it has seriously harmed my middle digits. They are the only ones I got the shots in and the only ones i have cronic long term issues with. The other digits kinda orbit around okay, my middle fingers will put me out months at a time and wont even be able to make a fist if they are acting up. And I followed all the Sports Dr. recommendations still didn't help. Also have found a lot of other similar stories thus... just don't do... find another dr.
sounds like doctors are of no good, even PT couldnt help being down the swolen joints as im experiencing.
Guess its all up to us.
thanks
Mickey Sensenbach · · San luis obispo CA · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 140

I think you are right about me and you haveing the same thing...

I have been not using that finger for a while now. All I do is crack climb instead of sport climb because of the injury. I tape the shit out of it too when I climb. And, it Is actually getting much much better! So I guess rest is the answer!

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Oh.. ya forgot to add that...

Taping above and below the middle knuckle seemed to work fairly well for me for trying harder stuff. I also used to climb with one of those metal finger splints taped on my middle digits. While the climbing is difficult with the splint it still gets you out and ensures you're not going to flog that knuckle...

I also found that climbing outdoors was significantly less stressful for my injury then indoors and as a result (and high cost of gym membership) I have mostly given up climbing indoors.

As for PT - I wouldn't give up on them... maybe try some other providers. Unfort without an MRI (and you likely won't find a doc to prescribe one) you really won't know exactly whats going on and thus are left guessing about the whole problem.

Ryan Arnold · · SLC · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 751

This problem has derailed two climbing summers in a row for me. With both fingers involved, I'd been climbing daily at my limit, then did some crimping deadpoints on overhanging projects.

Would a regimented training program help prevent this sort of overuse injury? The Anderson book claims they can reduce overuse injuries because you are in a high state of conditioning and fitness through regular hangboarding.

Paul Merchant · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 10

The best advice is to stop climbing for months. The injury takes about four to six months to heal depending on the severity. There is not much you can physical do speed up recovery. I had a similar injury back at the end of February. It is just in the last two weeks that I can climbing without any pain. There is still swelling but it goes away by the next day. I think you could start climbing at two months but resist pulling to hard to quickly. A general rule of thumb is your muscle gains strength about 40% quicker than your tendons. Sometimes you have to back off in intensity to allow you tendons to catch up.

This link gives you a good idea of what is going on:
nicros.com/training/article…

namburger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 35
Morgan Patterson wrote:Oh.. ya forgot to add that... Taping above and below the middle knuckle seemed to work fairly well for me for trying harder stuff. I also used to climb with one of those metal finger splints taped on my middle digits. While the climbing is difficult with the splint it still gets you out and ensures you're not going to flog that knuckle... I also found that climbing outdoors was significantly less stressful for my injury then indoors and as a result (and high cost of gym membership) I have mostly given up climbing indoors. As for PT - I wouldn't give up on them... maybe try some other providers. Unfort without an MRI (and you likely won't find a doc to prescribe one) you really won't know exactly whats going on and thus are left guessing about the whole problem.
my doctor actually told me that if it doesnt get better through PT he'll do an MRI on it to see for sure, maybe i should come back to see my doctor?
Charles Leung · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 0

I got the same thing. It's been on the right hand middle finger pip joint for the past 6 years. Just started up in my left middle finger this past year.

Rest is the key, just like all those other guys said, 6 plus months at a time to really get back. If you want to climb hard again, do the rest and build up slowly but expect the fingers to hurt and swell again after a month or so of really hard climbing.

When I climb I do a combo of taking it easy (1 maybe 2 days a week max), ice, and warm water and epsom salt. I started crack climbing 3 years ago and I find that my fingers are much happier, with he exception of harder finger cracks.

A friend recommended finger board workouts and using rock rings at the gym connected to the cable machine to build finger strength safely. I might try this next time I build up to climbing hard.

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

If you have a really good insurance plan, you can keep going to the docs, but you are probably wasting your time & money. If you've already isolated that you have soft tissue damage, then the course of treatment is the same.

I have a noticeable enlarged middle finger PIP joint on my right hand and 2 stiff PIP joints on the other. The right hand one I've had for a number of years; I'm pretty certain it was collateral ligament damage. IME (and others I've talked to) you can take all the time off in the world, as soon as you start crimping hard (relative to your finger strength), it'll get swollen again. If you care enough about climbing & climbing hard, then the best thing is learn to deal with it:

1) Your current swelling is pretty bad, so rest until the inflammation is at a more manageable level (until you can somewhat close your fist). Stretch & massage your fingers regularly in addition to contrast bath, rice bucket workout, etc.

2) read up on RPTM, especially about training intensity vs volume. A lot of people climb too much at a not high enough but still very stressful intensity & end up over-doing it. You don't get stronger in the long term & end up straining your fingers/body.

3) Use a fingerboard to build strength slowly for the long haul & work your open hand/sloper/pinch strength (work the shit out of the latter 2) so you aren't crimping unnecessarily.

4) Work the shit out of your core and improve the quality of your (dynamic) movement (watch how Sean McColl climb, especially the overall stability of his body even when executing wildly dynamic moves). It'll help prevent sudden overload of your finger, wrist, elbow & shoulder joints. This has derailed many climbers' career & seems to be under-emphasized in the current climbing training literature.

Of course you can choose to climb less crimpy/pockety routes & what not, but I imagine that's too much of a sacrifice to many climbers.

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Couldn't agree with Reboot more...

Mark D · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 30

This thread has made me a little nervous as I have the same swelling in one of my middle fingers. It was originally caused by a non-climbing related fall where the finger got jammed upwards, but climbing definitely irritates the finger. Taping it up before climbing is the only way I've been able to climb without lots of pain.

I have already seen a hand specialist, and he said it would take 3-6 months to heal. He also said climbing shouldn't cause any further damage or prevent it
from healing other than causing irritation directly after a climbing session. I'm 3 months in to the injury now, and the swelling and pain is down quite a bit despite not taking a break from climbing.

At this point, I'm going to continue climbing, but the good feel the Dr. gave me is gone, and I'll be monitoring it closely to see if a break from climbing is necessary (I am at least hoping to make it to snowboarding season before taking a long break, if necessary, from climbing).

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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