Mountain Project Logo

Smart alpine

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Rope diameter is critical to the braking feature of the Smart.

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5

"Also, when belaying from the anchor I have a difficult time pulling in slack which leads me to believe I am setting it up incorrectly."

"I cannot understand why using a rope .3mm thicker would cause any problems other than less smooth feeding"

Is the rope you're trying to belay from the anchor with your 9.8?

"if any of you MPers have useful tips to share, I am all ears."

...you really don't seem to be. I don't mean this unkindly, but I've read a few of your threads, and it's pointless for you to ask questions if you're going to get defensive and throw your 6 whole months of experience in people's faces whenever you don't love the answers you get. Climbing is a new sport for you - you've learned a lot, and you have a lot more to learn. Most of us would not get very far in climbing without learning from those more experienced. I'm not saying you should blindly follow any advice you get, view it critically. (In the critical thinking skills sense.)But a little more humility and open-mindedness would go a long way. Perhaps even gratitude for those trying to help you understand the answers to the questions you asked.

Good luck, I hope you find a good experienced mentor to climb with and wish you many safe and happy climbing days.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Thank you for putting this into perspective for me. You are right that I could be more open minded and yes I do have a lot to learn. It is much easier, though to take advice that is delivered politely rather than with a condescending tone that assumes that I know nothing. Sure I do have a lot to learn but I also know a lot from climbing with teachers that are essentially guides and have decades of experience. I am extremely lucky for this and am probably not grateful enough. Thank you for a response that isn't the typical MP alpha douch arrogant response. Ima gonna die! Oh and I think the reason I am having trouble belaying from the anchor is that I'm doing it wrong because I have also tried it with an 8mm and it isn't much better. And before anyone gets on their high horse, I have not done this with another climber, only on a similar set-up at home without anyone off the ground.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Thank you for putting this into perspective for me. You are right that I could be more open minded and yes I do have a lot to learn. It is much easier, though to take advice that is delivered politely rather than with a condescending tone that assumes that I know nothing. Sure I do have a lot to learn but I also know a lot from climbing with teachers that are essentially guides and have decades of experience. I am extremely lucky for this and am probably not grateful enough. Thank you for a response that isn't the typical MP alpha douch arrogant response. Ima gonna die!

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5
eli poss wrote:It is much easier, though to take advice that is delivered politely rather than with a condescending tone
Just as it is easier to give advice politely to someone who is respectful and not defensive.

Even as you thanked me for my post, you say this:
eli poss wrote: the typical MP alpha douch arrogant response.

eli poss wrote:And before anyone gets on their high horse,


If someone gives you a dick response, ignore it. Keep your tone respectful and polite so as not to alienate those who would offer you genuine, useful advice. You can't control the tone of others, only your own - and if you keep your own respectful that will go a long way toward keeping your threads respectful overall. There are a lot of people on this site with a lot of great experience and knowledge that you can learn from if you're willing to listen.

To answer one of your questions, if you're still interested: Yes, .3mm can make a difference. Especially when it is .3mm above what is already the max for your device. In a device rated for use with ropes 7.5-9.5, I would expect even a 9.5 rope to feed less smoothly. If I had a 9.8 or even a 9.5, I would go with the larger device (I think it's 8.9-10.2 or something?). If you want to stubbornly continue to use a too-small device with your rope, then expect it not to work optimally. .3mm doesn't sound like much but there is after all a reason why ropes are made in so many different diameters.

And to answer a question you didn't ask - these experienced mentors who are basically guides - you may want to re-evaluate. If you have been climbing with experienced awesome mentors for 6 months you shouldn't have the level of confusion we saw over how to build a TR anchor off of trees, or think it's ok to rap on 3mm cord. Someone can climb for 20 years and not fully understand their gear, or know of and follow best practices, or have even basic common sense. Climb with more people and learn things from as many experienced climbers as you can - use what makes sense, question what doesn't.

Good luck!
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

You may disregard this like all the other advice given to you but please find a mentor. I write this not to be an alpha douche whatever but in hopes that if you hear warnings from enough people you will stop and think..Maybe these guys are right.. Maybe I don't have enough knowledge to stay safe.

Does .3mm make a difference? I wanna say "That's what she said!" Seriously, Yes read the instructions.

I'm going to die? That's the best case scenario. Worst case? You kill someone else and have to live with it everyday til you die.

Very best wishes to you. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Mikey Seaman · · Boise, ID · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 5

This guy said he runs his brake strand through a biner on his haul loop when he top ropes. Combine that with other funky comments and you get: troll. Could be new version of trollenor? Either way, his name was Robert Paulson. Admins, please remove this obvious troll post.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10
eli poss wrote:Is .3mm going to make THAT much of a difference? That's tiny...
You realize the workable range is 9.5-7.5mm, or a range of 2mm. +.3mm is +15% of that.

What do you think the ratings are there for? Just because the change seems small, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. You make your own choices, but disregard specifications at your own peril. Or, more truthfully, at your partner's peril.

Of course, I could be mistaken in assuming you care about your partner's safety. I have been known to be wrong before.

This is just my opinion, but eli you seem to be overestimating yourself. You are essentially declaring you know better than Mammut, based on your 6 months of experience as a climber. The way I see it, a little humility in this department helps to keep you alive...
Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143
Patrick Shyvers wrote: You realize the workable range is 9.5-7.5mm, or a range of 2mm. +.3mm is +15% of that.
eli is wrong about almost everything he posts, but he is not wrong about this (sort of). the acceptable variance in diameter for manufacturing of climbing ropes is +/- .2mm . . . so if his cord was on the thin side it would be only .1mm out of spec for that device, or 5% of the range. on the other hand, the right way to use that piece of information is probably to stay even farther inside the recommended ranges.
Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10
Alexander Blum wrote: eli is wrong about almost everything he posts, but he is not wrong about this (sort of). the acceptable variance in diameter for manufacturing of climbing ropes is +/- .2mm . . . so if his cord was on the thin side it would be only .1mm out of spec for that device, or 5% of the range. on the other hand, the right way to use that piece of information is probably to stay even farther inside the recommended ranges.
This is good information, thank you!

That said, I'm an engineer. As an engineer, we typically assume worst case (except in special circumstances). So what you are really saying is his rope could be on the fat side at 10mm, which is +25% out of spec for the belay device! :)

In any case, the main point I was trying to make is, 0.3mm seems small to our brains that are used to feet and yards and miles, but that alone has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is important.
hikingdrew · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 38

In point of fact, the diameter given by the manufacturer is a nominal number, kind of like how 1/2" pipe is only vaguely related to 1/2 inch. The actual diameter of the rope can vary depending not only on manufacturing tolerance but on whether it's under tension or not, number of falls taken, middle or ends, etc. and this will affect its clearance in a device. Other factors that can affect friction through a device are: clean and new or dirty and old, fuzzy, wet, dry, single or double pick mantle construction etc. If a particular combination of rope and device are not working well, change it...

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

How is using a rope that is .3mm thicker than recommended in the belay device? The only way I can imagine is short roping but that isn't an issue because it still feeds as smoothly as an ATC when used properly. He'll, your are more likely to short rope the leader due to the learning curve of the device than a .3mm difference. And no I am not claiming I know more than Mammut not am I claiming it will work with just any 9.8mm rope, im only claimingthat it works with my 9.8mm. If you can't handle that then do be it. I guess I'm gonna die

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

Patrick, we agree on this point! I just thought it was interesting

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Discussion
Post a Reply to "Smart alpine"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.