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Smart alpine

Original Post
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I own and use the alpine smart from mammut but am in no way affiliated with them and paid full price for it.

So far, I have not had any complaints other than the lead belaying learning curve but I am past that now. I have only had one issue with it and that is rappeling in auto block mode on an 8mm rope. I could be wrong but I think it is supposed to work in the 9.5-7.5 range yet I find it not locking up on my 8mm. It does though, on my 9.8mm rope and also is more smooth on the 9.8. This goes for belaying and rappelling. I am using the BD rock lock biner that is worn but still has a year or so left in it. Would you suggest I use a different carabiner and if so which one?

Also, when belaying from the anchor I have a difficult time pulling in slack which leads me to believe I am setting it up incorrectly. I have, for the time being, just been anchoring myself and belaying off my harness, which has been much better. I have read the manual and watched the videos by mammut and still have had problems. And yes I am using the carabiner outside the device. I am considering buying a Gigi for this purpose as I like its design and have heard it works smooth as butter. Also because I almost always lead becausemy partner doesn't like the sharp end and it would be awesome, if we start doing multi, for him to use my alpine smart and I would use the Gigi.

Lastly, if any of you MPers have useful tips to share, I am all ears. I'll start with one: clipping a biner to the break side and clipping it to your haul loop or back gear loop helps keep the device in the maximum locking assistance alignment for belaying on TR. I do this often on single pitch climbs for my 2nd and it really helps it so the lever thing is point down and in this position the device does around 95% of breaking force

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
eli poss wrote:Lastly, if any of you MPers have useful tips to share, I am all ears.
Read the directions or the markings on the side of the device that state applicable rope sizes.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
eli poss wrote:I own and use the alpine smart from mammut but am in no way affiliated with them and paid full price for it. So far, I have not had any complaints other than the lead belaying learning curve but I am past that now. I have only had one issue with it and that is rappeling in auto block mode on an 8mm rope. I could be wrong but I think it is supposed to work in the 9.5-7.5 range yet I find it not locking up on my 8mm. It does though, on my 9.8mm rope and also is more smooth on the 9.8. This goes for belaying and rappelling. I am using the BD rock lock biner that is worn but still has a year or so left in it. Would you suggest I use a different carabiner and if so which one? Also, when belaying from the anchor I have a difficult time pulling in slack which leads me to believe I am setting it up incorrectly. I have, for the time being, just been anchoring myself and belaying off my harness, which has been much better. I have read the manual and watched the videos by mammut and still have had problems. And yes I am using the carabiner outside the device. I am considering buying a Gigi for this purpose as I like its design and have heard it works smooth as butter. Also because I almost always lead becausemy partner doesn't like the sharp end and it would be awesome, if we start doing multi, for him to use my alpine smart and I would use the Gigi. Lastly, if any of you MPers have useful tips to share, I am all ears. I'll start with one: clipping a biner to the break side and clipping it to your haul loop or back gear loop helps keep the device in the maximum locking assistance alignment for belaying on TR. I do this often on single pitch climbs for my 2nd and it really helps it so the lever thing is point down and in this position the device does around 95% of breaking force
Get someone safe and experienced with the device to show you how to use it properly

Your last point especiallt makes absolutely no sense

Properly setup the mammut alpine smart pulls through the rope the smoothest in autoblock of any of the autoblock devices except for maybe a grigri/gigi

Please dont give "tips" till you are experienced in its usage and dont need to learn the basic setup

;)
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
eli poss wrote: I have only had one issue with it and that is rappeling in auto block mode on an 8mm rope. I could be wrong but I think it is supposed to work in the 9.5-7.5 range yet I find it not locking up on my 8mm.
You mean it isn´t moving into the assisted braking position or it doesn´t hold your weight? Two strands of 7.8 (haven´t tested 8mm) it holds about 60kg so if your above that weight then it won´t.
Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

Which one do you have? Examine your Smart Alpine closely. There are two different models, one for 7.5-9.5mm rope and one for 8.9-10.5mm rope.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I have read the instructions and the writing on the device says 7.5-9.5mm . And I am very experienced in all aspects of the device other than belaying from an anchor, thank you very much, and am qualified to share tips on using the device other than belaying from the anchor. If you don't trust me, don't take my advice, but please don't assume that I am clueless just because I am asking a question. You don't know me and if you did, you would not that your assumption is wrong. And as for my original question, I have the device in the locked position where, with my 9.8mm rope it will hold me without any additional force, yet on my 8mm rope, it requires breaking force, although less than an atc. Also, to clarify, this is 8mm static cord (rated to 20kn) that I carry with me on hikes, along with my alpine harness, alpine smart, and a few lockers. Does this make a difference or is it just a rope/carabiner combo thing?

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I have read the instructions and the writing on the device says 7.5-9.5mm . And I am very experienced in all aspects of the device other than belaying from an anchor, thank you very much, and am qualified to share tips on using the device other than belaying from the anchor. If you don't trust me, don't take my advice, but please don't assume that I am clueless just because I am asking a question. You don't know me and if you did, you would not that your assumption is wrong. And as for my original question, I have the device in the locked position where, with my 9.8mm rope it will hold me without any additional force, yet on my 8mm rope, it requires breaking force, although less than an atc. Also, to clarify, this is 8mm static cord (rated to 20kn) that I carry with me on hikes, along with my alpine harness, alpine smart, and a few lockers. Does this make a difference or is it just a rope/carabiner combo thing?

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

The writing on the device says 7.5-9.5 although I have no problems with my 9.8 rope, even in the fuzzy spots.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

It doesn't matter what device you are using, thinner rope is going to slip more and require more hand force. Belay devices are all rated for rope well into the "so skinny it slips a bit" range. After all, the rating measures their ability to arrest falls safely, not their ability to arrest falls without hand force.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Yeah that is understandable. I just thought that, since it works without and breaking force on my 9.8, it may work with a different rope/carabiner combo for an 8mm. Also, keep in mind this is about rappeling, not taking a fall. I never take my hand off while belaying, despite the device's temdency to lock without because that is simply bad technique. Even with a gri-gri, I never take off my break hand, and if I had to in an emergency, I would tie a backup knot that wouldn't pass through. Out of curiosity, what biner do you use with yours?

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
eli poss wrote:I have read the instructions and the writing on the device says 7.5-9.5mm . And I am very experienced in all aspects of the device other than belaying from an anchor, thank you very much, and am qualified to share tips on using the device other than belaying from the anchor. If you don't trust me, don't take my advice, but please don't assume that I am clueless just because I am asking a question. You don't know me and if you did, you would not that your assumption is wrong. And as for my original question, I have the device in the locked position where, with my 9.8mm rope it will hold me without any additional force, yet on my 8mm rope, it requires breaking force, although less than an atc. Also, to clarify, this is 8mm static cord (rated to 20kn) that I carry with me on hikes, along with my alpine harness, alpine smart, and a few lockers. Does this make a difference or is it just a rope/carabiner combo thing?
you just admitted that you dont know how to properly set it up it autoblock ... i would hardly call this very experienced in all aspects of the device

nor are you even using the right terminology ... you cant rappel in "auto block" mode

I have only had one issue with it and that is rappeling in auto block mode on an 8mm rope


use the proper device for the proper rope diametre ...

and before offering "tips" get some REAL experience using the device

arent you the guy who doesnt know how to properly setup a masterpoint on a TR anchor???

eli poss wrote:Yeah that is understandable. I just thought that, since it works without and breaking force on my 9.8, it may work with a different rope/carabiner combo for an 8mm. Also, keep in mind this is about rappeling, not taking a fall. I never take my hand off while belaying, despite the device's temdency to lock without because that is simply bad technique. Even with a gri-gri, I never take off my break hand, and if I had to in an emergency, I would tie a backup knot that wouldn't pass through. Out of curiosity, what biner do you use with yours?
again use the PROPER device for the PROPER rope diametre

;)
Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

I understand you're talking about rappelling. The story is exactly the same for rappelling as for belaying; skinny ropes have less friction.

If you want more friction, generally you would use a shaped carabiner. For example, a Rocklock or Attache is made from round bar stock and will have minimal friction. A Vaporlock or Attache 3D is much more featured and will have much more friction.

Personally I only use my Smart for gym climbing. I climb outside with an ATC guide. In the gym I use Rocklocks 'cos they are cheap, durable, and feed smoothly with fat gym ropes (thank you bar stock). Outside I usually use something lighter.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

1 I wrote: I am very experienced in all aspects of the device other than belaying from an anchor
Read my post before posting.
2 i could be wrong but if my memory serves me, the mammut website has instructions on how to rappel in auto block mode. Even if I am wrong, however, in reality the device locks up while rappeling unless you push the lever out. I have done this countless times on my 9.8mm and it has never failed me. Have you used it to rappel? If not, you should not be critiquing my post in the first place
3 I have over 6 months experience using this device thank you very much.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
eli poss wrote:1 I wrote: I am very experienced in all aspects of the device other than belaying from an anchor Read my post before posting. 2 i could be wrong but if my memory serves me, the mammut website has instructions on how to rappel in auto block mode. Even if I am wrong, however, in reality the device locks up while rappeling unless you push the lever out. I have done this countless times on my 9.8mm and it has never failed me. Have you used it to rappel? If not, you should not be critiquing my post in the first place 3 I have over 6 months experience using this device thank you very much.
no device can rappel in "auto block mode"

ive used all versions of the smart extensively for the last few years

go read the manufacturers instructions, use the proper diameter device for the proper diameter rope and find someone in real life who is experienced with the device to show you how to use it properly

i was almost killed once by someone who learned how to set up a reverso in autoblock off da intraweb

you can see my alpine smart how much its been used the last few years ... i own and use all 3 versions daily

smart alpine large version + petzl williams

;)
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Hmm I guess it isn't called auto blocking mode. Regardless, though, it does lock up when used with my 9.8mm. And I have read the manual that came with it. And no, I am not trying to learn how to use it on the internet, I am simply looking for suggestions on carabiner choice or any other tricks that others may have found that may not have been mentioned in the instruction manual. For example petzel approved of a belay technique that was presented to them by climbers who had figured it out on their own.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Hmm I guess it isn't called auto blocking mode. Regardless, though, it does lock up when used with my 9.8mm. And I have read the manual that came with it. And no, I am not trying to learn how to use it on the internet, I am simply looking for suggestions on carabiner choice or any other tricks that others may have found that may not have been mentioned in the instruction manual. For example petzel approved of a belay technique that was presented to them by climbers who had figured it out on their own.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
eli poss wrote:Hmm I guess it isn't called auto blocking mode. Regardless, though, it does lock up when used with my 9.8mm. And I have read the manual that came with it. And no, I am not trying to learn how to use it on the internet, I am simply looking for suggestions on carabiner choice or any other tricks that others may have found that may not have been mentioned in the instruction manual. For example petzel approved of a belay technique that was presented to them by climbers who had figured it out on their own.
all the "tricks" are useless if you cant even master the basic functions of the device

this is a belay device, its absolutely and utterly important that you know how and are well versed in using it correctly ... if not your partner goes kaput

again ...

- read the manufacturers instructions and practice all the setups extensively ... mammut.ch/images/Smart+Alpi…

- use the proper diameter device for the proper rope ... hint a 9.8mm rope for a 9.5mm max device may be causing you issues

- get someone experienced in the device to show you how to use it properly

ive almost been killed by someone who wanted to try a "trick" he "learned online" without the benefit of proper instruction

folks have been dropped by people who wanted to try "tricks" without mastering the gear in question first

;)
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

1 I cannot understand why using a rope .3mm thicker would cause any problems other than less smooth feeding, which it has not yet. While lead belaying I have no issues feeding rope, even on an old 10mm. And I'm not going to buy another rope just for the device considering my current one works like a charm
2 Any tips I pick up, I thoroughly test with only my life on the line in a controlled, safe, environment. I'm sorry you almost died due to someone making you a test monkey, which is excactly the reason I choose not to.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

bearbreeder is not telling you to buy all new ropes. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a Smart Alpine designed for use with fat ropes.

Whether you use gear outside its ratings is up to you. Personally, I am much more willing to step outside the ratings when I'm the one over the edge. It's not really fair to disregard the ratings when the person you put at risk is your partner, IMO.

Possible concerns with using too fat of a rope that come to mind-

- Too much friction generating too much heat.

- Too much friction eliminating slip, resulting in a "static belay" even for huge falls

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Is .3mm going to make THAT much of a difference? That's tiny... And even if it does make a huge difference, I'm not going to spend $45 over .3mm. I don't have that kind of money to spend on splitting hairs. I guess ima gonna die

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

Is .3mm going to make THAT much of a difference? That's tiny... And even if it does make a huge difference, I'm not going to spend $45 over .3mm. I don't have that kind of money to spend on splitting hairs. I guess ima gonna die

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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