Mammut Dyneema 8mm contact slings safe for anchor cleaning?

Hi guys. Pretty simple question here that, after doing some searching around these forums and other sites, I can't seem to get a clear answer on.

Just picked up two Mammut Dyneema 8mm contact slings. I was under the impression that these would be just fine to girth hitch to my harness and clip into anchors with a locking biner to clean single pitch sport routes. I found a couple of threads online stating that these types of slings don't actually perform well in static, load-bear conditions like this. It seemed weird to me that such a basic piece of equipment wouldn't be useful in such an ordinary situation, but I figured my life is worth the two minutes to take to post this. Apologies if there is a super-obvious answer here, but as I'm just getting into sport climbing I'd rather be safe than sorry.

So... two of these slings girth-hitched into my harness, each attached to a locker and clipped into the anchors. OK to hold my weight while I clean a single pitch sport anchor?

Thanks!

Sounds almost exactly like what I use to clean anchors. You'll probably be fine.

These are fine for that purpose.

The limitation of these slings is that they don't stretch at all, so dynamic loading (i.e. falling a significant distance directly on them without a rope or other energy absorbent link in the chain) will create higher forces than with other materials that stretch.

Static loading is not an issue for these slings. Static situations are actually what they are best for. Feel free to clip in to the anchors and hang from them while you are messing around at the top of the climb.

Here's what you should NOT do with these or any static material:

Do not clip in, climb above the anchors and then fall off. If you do that, the force will not be attenuated at all by the slings and will be absorbed by the anchors and your body (which will hurt.)

It's always a good idea to minimize the distance you might fall when you are clipped in directly to the anchors. Having non-energy absorbent connections (such as these slings, or a dynema PAS, or any other non-stretch connection) makes this even more important. Keep the potential fall distance low and you will be fine.

Good video explaining the science behind nylon and Dyneema. Recommended watch for sure..

dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/h…

Thanks for all of your thoughtful, helpful replies! I figured biggest danger was, as many of you noted, falling onto them as opposed to simply hanging on them. They're only 60cm, so I couldn't even climb up with them if I wanted to.

I'll take a look at that video for sure. I'm sure some other beginners will stumble onto this, so any other educational links will be appreciated.

Dan1124 wrote:Thanks for all of your thoughtful, helpful replies! I figured biggest danger was, as many of you noted, falling onto them as opposed to simply hanging on them. They're only 60cm, so I couldn't even climb up with them if I wanted to. I'll take a look at that video for sure. I'm sure some other beginners will stumble onto this, so any other educational links will be appreciated.

Dan,

If the runner is 60cm long, you could theoretically climb 60cm above your anchor. If you slip and fall, it's a factor two fall. Not that hard to imagine climbing up to, or above, the anchor for a better stance.

Nylon slings are marginally better, as they have some stretch.

Pretty sure those are 22kn slings. You can hang quite a bit more than your bodyweight. Girth hitch two to your harness, grab a couple locking biners and you're good to go.

folks have just about covered the pro's and cons of the nylon slings, but no one's mentioned that it is a superfluous set up. Disclaimer, do what makes you feel comfortable. But there is a perfectly safe way of doing this if your anchor is two quick draws, which it often is on sport routes, that is redundant, faster, and doesn't require the extra gear. If you have to thread and then rappel from your anchor there is a way of doing so with one 4' sling and a locker (plus rappel device/locker). If I can recall from my time in the Poudre these easier less gear intensive means might be better!

I cringe seeing all of the permanently girth hitched slings and PAS's at my home sport crag (Rumney). I had one rep tell me that they think the reason Todd Skinner's belay loop failed is because he had a permanently girthed sling on his belay loop that inhibited it from moving freely which distributes wear. Petzl even designs their belay loops with a smaller bar tack so that it can rotate more freely to distribute wear evenly...

That's a great point about the sling not being permanently girthed on. I girth mine, but make sure to remove it after every day and put it back on in a different spot.

There is some relevant info (about falling onto your runner at an anchor) in this thread, also:

mountainproject.com/v/metol…

E thatcher wrote:But there is a perfectly safe way of doing this if your anchor is two quick draws, which it often is on sport routes, that is redundant, faster, and doesn't require the extra gear. If you have to thread and then rappel from your anchor there is a way of doing so with one 4' sling and a locker (plus rappel device/locker).

Can you describe this method?

It can be a little hard to describe without a visual, but the basic sequence is to get to an anchor and clip in direct to one of the draws, then pull a loop through the second draw. tie an overhand on a bight through the second draw and clip it into your belay loop or tie in points. So now you're "tied in" at that knot with the draw right below it on the rope, and you're clipped in direct; Redundant. Then untie you're figure eight, thread for a lower and retie, take tight and clean the anchor.

Everyone has their own system but on a two bolt belay at a single pitch sport crag I almost always only use draws for the anchor. normal draws, opposite and opposed, with friends, and draws with lockers on the bottom when guiding. The exception being if the anchor needs to be extended over a lip or something of the sort.

The biggest benefit to me is that i don't have to take time to girth hitch something on, or climb with something permanantly hanging from my harness, which I would find to be cumbersome and in the way...

E thatcher wrote:It can be a little hard to describe without a visual, but the basic sequence is to get to an anchor and clip in direct to one of the draws, then pull a loop through the second draw. tie an overhand on a bight through the second draw and clip it into your belay loop or tie in points. So now you're "tied in" at that knot with the draw right below it on the rope, and you're clipped in direct; Redundant. Then untie you're figure eight, thread for a lower and retie, take tight and clean the anchor.

Not really redundant for a brief time. What your describing is quick and clean but not something I would recommend over the internet especially where a beginner can see it.

The problem lies when you pull yourself up [most likely by the draws] to get your belay loop high enough to clip one of the draws to it. At that point, unclipping the draw [#1] from the rope and clipping it into the belay loop, you're only attached with a single draw [#2] and precariously balanced with your center of mass AT the second draw. It's not really a great position to be in with a single non locking biner. It may not be as secure as you may think.

Christopher Gibson wrote:There are basically two schools of thought on girth hitching slings, girth hitch in the belay loop or girth hitch through the tie in points. Both are acceptable practices.

There may be "two schools of thought" but one of them is less than acceptable.

Belay loops are for carabiners. Yes they are strong, no they probably won't break but a girth hitched Dyneema sling can cut a nylon belay loop under load and any permanently hitched sling, as we all know, WILL wear it over time.

Tie in points, waist and leg, are for soft goods, ropes and slings.

A harness IS DESIGNED to belay or clip into the loop and tie or girth into the, usually reinforced, leg and waist loops.

Just look at the information that comes with any harness.

Sure you can girth a sling to a belay loop just like you can steer with your knee while posting on the Proj, but it ain't best practices.

Yer gunna die

Not splitting hairs or taking this out of context.

Now I will restate. It is not debatable. Loops are for belaying tie in points are for soft soft.

That is how harnesses are designed and intended by the manufactures for use. If you girth or tie into the belay you are using the harness improperly, period.

We are all gona die.

^ This

Craig's books were written in 2004 and 2007, Todd crashed in 2006, it is now 2014. Thoughts on what's acceptable have changed.

See previous comments.

cdec wrote:Not splitting hairs or taking this out of context. Now I will restate. It is not debatable. Loops are for belaying tie in points are for soft soft. That is how harnesses are designed and intended by the manufactures for use. If you girth or tie into the belay you are using the harness improperly, period. We are all gona die.

yawn

^^^
OP asked, that's the answer. Sorry if it makes you sleepy.

It is perfectly fine to attach the PAS to your harness either way. I prefer to attach to the belay loop when doing single pitch and I girth hitch it through the tie in points when doing multi pitch.

Thank you for contacting us directly. The internet gear forums unfortunately disseminate massive quantities of inaccurate information. Always contact the OEM for proper use instructions.

Best regards,

Pat Carr
Metolius Customer Service

mountainproject.com/v/belay…

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

;)