Metolius PAS 22 manufacturing fault (Update - not as bad as it first looks)

UPDATE - I just heard back from Metolius and apparently it isn't quite as bad as it looks (but they are still really concerned and taking this very seriously). See my post at the bottom of the page for more details. I left the original post and thread as it was:

So I was browsing the climbing section at my local REI today, and on the shelf was a Metolius PAS (REI store in Northbrook Illinois, just off Willow Road in Northbrook) that was missing all of the bar tacks entirely on one of the chain / loop things.

Attached are a couple of pics I grabbed with my phone - I gave it to a store employee immediately, made it clear to them this was an epic problem in manufacturing and they needed to send this to manufacturer asap. I also then called Metolius and told someone at customer service and emailed them pictures.

About half my rack is Metolius gear (offset master cams rock by the way) and I know they take quality and safety very seriously, so hopefully they are already tracking down how this even left the factory, but in good conscience I felt I should share with others so they can check their gear.

Hopefully this was just a one off freak lapse, but I would hate to think of the potential consequences if someone had actually used this...

Sorry, one other thing. The person I spoke to at Metolius seemed very concerned and wanted to know as much as possible so they could investigate - I do think they are a good company, just hope this is a random one off thing...

True, but I think it really depends on the climbing ethic of where you happen to climb. I spend a lot of time in red river gorge in KY, and I have always thought it best to rap off the top routes rather than thread a bite through the anchor and be lowered (saves wear and extends anchor life). The PAS is super useful for cleaning sport routes and rapping off, so almost everyone I know has one (or something similar). Also there is nothing quite as good for extending a rappel as a PAS on long trad descents...

that should never have passed inspection or have been sent out

IMO some of these fancy PASes have more things you need to inspect ... with a sling i just take a quick glace/feel at the entire loop ... with a PAS (from any manufacturer) you need to inspect every small loop and their stitching for wear

which is fine as long as folks inspect it properly ... but honestly how many do?

not to mention a sling costs like 5 dollah vs 30 dollah for a PAS

;)

Very true - and actually I can't think of a trad route I have done in the past few years where I didn't anchor in with the rope at all my belays with a sling as a back up.

I do use PAS cleaning sport routes and extending raps and find them very convenient, but as you say - this should never have left the factory! Time to go back to my fatty nylon slings perhaps?

philip riley wrote:Very true - and actually I can't think of a trad route I have done in the past few years where I didn't anchor in with the rope at all my belays with a sling as a back up. I do use PAS cleaning sport routes and extending raps and find them very convenient, but as you say - this should never have left the factory! Time to go back to my fatty nylon slings perhaps?

well i use a 120cm nylon sling currently with two overhand knots in it ... i find it works just fine and ive used a PAS for years prior (i was a suckah!!!) ...

sure the rating is "less" as ~60% (overhand) of 22 kn is "only" ~13 kn ... more than sufficient for any climbing application where you wouldnt anchor in with the rope

also remember that you girth hitch a PAS as well so your total system with the "full strength" PAS is reduced by ~40% anyways due to the hitch ... basically the "full strength" argument of those PAS (of any manufacturer) is a bit irrelevant

PASes though are one of the "in things" these days ... pay 30$+ for something a 5$ sling will handle just fine and which folks have been using for decades

not to mention that you can take the sling apart and use it as a emergency ascending knot

;)

Wow.

That is seriously messed up.

Massive quality control failure.

Glad nobody was killed.

@bearbreeder - I have always shied away from using knotted slings for exactly the reason you mention (strength) but hadn't thought about the girth hitch basically doing the same thing. I suppose on old school fatty nylon sling a few knots aren't an issue since you should never have any slack in the cleaning system anyway.

@ Kai - yup I was pretty shocked and that is why I am here - I am generally not a big forum person, but felt this was rather epic and needed to be mentioned since this could easily have lead to a death... I did spend a good hour this evening giving all my master cams a very careful inspection - all were good by the way!

Metolius has addressed this issue in the past. Yes, it is a quality control thing. 99.99% etc. Anyway, the guy from
Metolius has posted multiple times addressing this issue. His name was Robert Paulson.

Maurice Chaunders wrote:Metolius has addressed this issue in the past. Yes, it is a quality control thing. 99.99% etc. Anyway, the guy from Metolius has posted multiple times addressing this issue. His name was Robert Paulson.

how many times has this happened in the past?

do you have the link?

bearbreeder wrote: PASes though are one of the "in things" these days ... pay 30$+ for something a 5$ sling will handle just fine and which folks have been using for decades not to mention that you can take the sling apart and use it as a emergency ascending knot ;)

Pretty much sums it up. PAS's are the most superfluous pieces of gear which are used almost exclusively by "new" climbers only, new being less than 10 years. Sure, they have a few advantages in some situations. But, ask yourself when you use one: Do I have something already on me that will work just as well? 9 times out of 10 the answer will be yes.

Greg D wrote: Pretty much sums it up. PAS's are the most superfluous pieces of gear which are used almost exclusively by "new" climbers only, new being less than 10 years. Sure, they have a few advantages in some situations.

Well, I have been climbing for 11 years and I use them. But I only use them sport climbing, and only because I have had them forever. I think I got them originally because I do a lot of route maintenance and so I wanted something adjustable, but I dident want to use a full daisy chain. I went with slings with tied knots originally, then replaced that with the PAS.

I dont see any problem with the PAS. It's unnecessary for most climbers and doesent offer great value, but I dont see anything inherently wrong with using one either. It's like climbing sport on a 11mm rope. It's unnecessary, but there is nothing explicitly wrong about doing so either.

That said, I dont ever use them on multipitch routes, while climbing aid or trad, or pretty much anywhere other than craging at a sport wall, and mostly they are for use at my local wall when doing development work.

Maurice Chaunders wrote:Metolius has addressed this issue in the past. Yes, it is a quality control thing. 99.99% etc. Anyway, the guy from Metolius has posted multiple times addressing this issue. His name was Robert Paulson.

In project mo-chaun we have no names.
His Name is Robert Paulson: youtu.be/GCi_PIz5ekU

PAS was to take place I the daisy chain. It has it's usefulness in many forms. I use it and like because if I can reach the bolt or anchor I can clip in directly. With a sling 24 inch or 36 I couldn't do that. It's funny to say that it is only "new" climbers that are using it. Because I feel that way about cams. I've talk a few people (I work for an rei, and I will be checking out PAS chains today) but I've talked a few noobs out of buying cams right away and told them how important it is to use passive gear first and understand it. Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the gear issue.

bearbreeder wrote: how many times has this happened in the past? do you have the link?

Ignore this poster, he apparently finally got around to Fight Club and now all his replies include Robert Paulson references.

Greg D wrote: Pretty much sums it up. PAS's are the most superfluous pieces of gear which are used almost exclusively by "new" climbers only, new being less than 10 years.

Absolutely true - but they do have their place. I was in vegas a few years ago on a work trip and hired a guide to spend a day climbing in red rocks - he used PAS's as a convenient, safe and fast way to anchor himself and clients (and extend raps) on multi-pitch trad.

Regardless of the fact you have other alternatives that work just as well and are cheaper, many people like me (weekend warriors from the city!) who only get to climb 15 or 20 days a year don't really care about cost / value as we do for convenience.

I do 100% agree with you that a lot of newer climbers (particularly new sport leaders) use them to clean anchors, and that is why I posted here - a product designed for anchoring that is frequently used by less experienced climbers wasn't sewn correctly...

Another thread that gets off topic. We dont need another value of the PAS pissing match. The issue here is quality control and inspecting your gear. These missing bar tacks could have just as easily been on a cam sling, sewn runner, or belay loop. We all could probably do a better job inspecting our gear for wear, but I guess we should also be looking closely at new stuff and take nothing for granted. The growth of climbing means manufacturers are pushing out more gear and defects are going to happen. You cant count on any gear 100% of the time, but gravity you can.

Chris Massey wrote: The growth of climbing means manufacturers are pushing out more gear and defects are going to happen.

These companies make PPE. That means if their products dont work, people die. They need to get it right 100% of the time. Not 99%. Imagine if someone used that PAS to create a belay station on El Cap, and the station failed killing the entire party and maybe the team below them from the falling haul bag. The deads' families could sue Metolius and a lawsuit like that could wipe Metolius off the grid. Thus, the brass is going to be really pissed off if they hear their QA lead summing the incident up as "shit happens." Many climbing manufacturers are still small enough that one really high-profile, serious incident could compromise the future of the entire company, so getting stuff right is probably very high on their list of concerns.

But what is done is done, the question now is what is Metolius going to do to make sure this never happens again, and 100% of their PAS units make it off the line intact? That is the #1 question the QA lead is going to have to answer. Last time I saw something like this happen, the manufacturer added significantly more QA checks, one at each assembly station instead of only at the end, and they added a two-person QA check at the end. By the product made it to its final packaged it was hand checked by a half dozen people. I would envision Metolius could do something like that, but I dont know how their QA process is now so it's impossible to say.

Should be OK. It is CE/UIAA certified.

philip riley wrote:I have always thought it best to rap off the top routes rather than thread a bite through the anchor and be lowered (saves wear and extends anchor life). The PAS is super useful for cleaning sport routes and rapping off, so almost everyone I know has one (or something similar). Also there is nothing quite as good for extending a rappel as a PAS on long trad descents...

How would threading a bight through to rap or to be lowered be any different in your setup? Instead of tying back in you just pull half the rope through. I do both and use a standard sling (preference).

Scott McMahon wrote: How would threading a bight through to rap or to be lowered be any different in your setup? Instead of tying back in you just pull half the rope through. I do both and use a standard sling (preference).

@ Scott - sorry, should have been clearer in my response - I was referring to the statement about not going off belay. You are correct, either way you need a sling or something to go in direct to the anchor, but if you thread a bight through the anchor, tie a figure 8 and then clip this to your belay loop with a locker before untying your original figure 8 from your hard point you can technically clean an anchor without ever being off belay so that worst case scenario is that if the PAS had failed you would have fallen (admittedly with a huge amount of slack) to the last bolt below the anchor. You see people do this quite a lot at the red, especially on steep sport routes and I have always thought that it was a bit lazy since it puts a lot of wear on the anchor rings / quicklinks / whatever.

Chris Massey wrote:Another thread that gets off topic. We dont need another value of the PAS pissing match. The issue here is quality control and inspecting your gear. These missing bar tacks could have just as easily been on a cam sling, sewn runner, or belay loop. We all could probably do a better job inspecting our gear for wear, but I guess we should also be looking closely at new stuff and take nothing for granted. The growth of climbing means manufacturers are pushing out more gear and defects are going to happen. You cant count on any gear 100% of the time, but gravity you can.

Chris - totally true you are absolutely right it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of the utility of a PAS. I also agree with you that we should all take responsibility for checking our own gear carefully and take nothing for granted - even brand new stuff.

I think I disagree a little about expectations of quality though. As 20KN points out, many products could have the same issue, regular slings or even cam slings, key bar tacks on harnesses, belay loops or a haul bag.

Some of this gear might not be something everyone uses (or even thinks is worthwhile), but I would think most climbers expect 100% for new gear which isn't unreasonable.

I personally use a PAS, and have lots of friends and even hired a guide who think they are convenient and useful - regardless of if you think they are a waste of money the point is that we all should be a bit concerned if this sort of thing makes it out of the factory.