Mammut Smart Alpine - Which Biner?!

Gents,

I own the smaller Smart Alpine, and to this point have used the Petzl Attache (older version)

It's worked, but I feel like I'm missing out on an easier lead-belay due to the size of the biner. Using 8mm or 8.5mm half ropes.

I've seen some info kicked around on other threads, just curious what biner (oversized or otherwise) ya'll are using. Keep in mind to mention what size Smart you have as well.

Just ordered and received the DMM Boa, but I think I may have screwed myself with the asymmetrical shape of it.



Will test and give feedback.

I've used the BD Rocklock with good results on the smaller smart alpine

I use the Wild Country Synergy HMS - nice round stock carabiner works nice. A round stock biner will not rub to a sharp/fine edge like the I-beam type after prolonged use. I also feel that the system feeds better with a round stock carabiner too.

I use husky ropes so my Smart and Alpine Smart are the larger devices (8.9 - 10.5).

Wild Country Synergy HMS

after trying the Attache, BD Vaporlock, Metolius Element Belay and others with the larger Smart, I've settled on a Petzl William. While not psyched on the weight, I like that feeding rope and rapping are both made much smoother with a straighter, more symmetrical basket than is typical for most lighter lockers.

That WC Synergy looks like it would be perfect. Also, if you can stand it, the BD Mini Pearbiner might be a good choice for the narrower-bodied <9.5 Smart.

The Boa? Not so much.

saltlick wrote: The Boa? Not so much.

Haha, I know, but I believe I saw some guy that breeds bears on here say it was a good fit. I wonder if they made an older BOA that was shaped differently? If so, I feel like a bloody fool. ;)

perfect for racking micro-nuts, tho...

Perfect for High Dagger.

I can't find an old version of the boa, but perhaps my google skills are bad. Perhaps I'll be okay through some wizardy I'm not familiar with. Perhaps I'll be selling a brand new BOA on MP shortly.

Rock Exotica Pirate Wire-Eye. I have used the WC Synergy, BD Rock Lock, Metlius Element, and OP Jake. I think the Pirate has the most consistent lock and release with the largest variety of my ropes and does not spin. The Synergy works just as consistently but I like the Wire-Eye feature.

I have the larger alpine Smart and use the Camp Compact Screwgate. It works like a dream with the alpine smart.
camp-usa.com/products/carab…

I have a couple of extra new ones kicking around if you want one for cheap.
Dallen

Appreciate the input by all. It would appear that a fairly symmetrical, round profile, and relatively flat top bar (as opposed to the rounder top of that Camp HMS) is the ticket. Pretty much the exact opposite of the DMM boa.

Hi Five myself!

I should have read more thoroughly, and let common sense prevail instead of my propensity toward hoarding DMM gear.

If bearbreeder doesn't weigh in here pm him. He knows more about the Smart than most.

rgold wrote:If bearbreeder doesn't weigh in here pm him. He knows more about the Smart than most.

Danke. I think I already did a while back, if memory serves. I think I've got the idea now - if a biner like the boa actually works well (based on it's shape), I'd be surprised. Seems like a more traditional shape is optimal.

Petzl william works best IME ... Its large and round stock

The dmm boa will work very well until it gets a sharp edge due to the ibeam

The rocklock is a poorer choice as its slightly smaller than the above and not as rounded, leading to it being sticker on rap and lead

The smart wears out biners quickly as it always presses the rope against the biner

The below biners have been worn out from use on the alpine smart ... Around 200 climbing days each, the boa has a sharp edge, the williams does not

Unless you are going for alpine weight savings i beam biners for belaying are a marketing gimmic, and the williams isnt any heavier than the boa

;)

Whoa, forgot all about this thread.

DMM BOA is great, but doesn't work "very well" with the smart. The old Petzl Williams I found in my gear bin does a much better job, and will last longer with the round stock vs the I-beam nonsense. Just not the lightest thing on earth.

Adam Burch wrote:Whoa, forgot all about this thread. DMM BOA is great, but doesn't work "very well" with the smart. The old Petzl Williams I found in my gear bin does a much better job, and will last longer with the round stock vs the I-beam nonsense. Just not the lightest thing on earth.

i used the boa for the first year and a half with the alpine smart ... it worked just fine for me except it wore out to a sharp edge

many of my partners at the time also used the boa ... they eventually swapped to the williams as well not because it didnt work well with the smart, but because of the wear issue

;)

Just chiming in random here, my gf says she always has a hard time lead belaying me, also had a guy the other day swearing my rope wouldn't feed through his ATC Guide. I led the next pitch (and thinking my rope might just be gummed up with ice that day) and had no problem belaying.

Do all these people probably have oversized biners? I know my gf uses that ridiculously oversized BD Rocklox? I think I could rack that thing on my bicep if I needed to.

I use a Mammut Bionic, dunno why, its just what I started with. It's on the small side compared to what you guys are showing, but feels great with my 10.1 rope. I also know that I've had a Maxim glider fly through my device so fast it hurt my hands.

Do you guys dial in your belay, choosing biner per rope diameter?

Tom Sherman wrote:Just chiming in random here, my gf says she always has a hard time lead belaying me, also had a guy the other day swearing my rope wouldn't feed through his ATC Guide. I led the next pitch (and thinking my rope might just be gummed up with ice that day) and had no problem belaying. Do all these people probably have oversized biners? I know my gf uses that ridiculously oversized BD Rocklox? I think I could rack that thing on my bicep if I needed to. I use a Mammut Bionic, dunno why, its just what I started with. It's on the small side compared to what you guys are showing, but feels great with my 10.1 rope. I also know that I've had a Maxim glider fly through my device so fast it hurt my hands. Do you guys dial in your belay, choosing biner per rope diameter?

tom

with the ATC guide any decent round stock biner will do ...

if theres problems belaying its likely either the rope is getting too stiff/fuzzy .. and/or the belayer lacks the proper technique/experienced with the device/rope

a few tricks

- the brake hand needs to come up a bit more parallel to the device and PUSH the rope through while the climber side hand pulls ... this introduces a bit more risk of course, but with thick fuzzy ropes thats what you need to do

- occasionally the rope will bind up in the device ... the trick in those cases is not to pull harder, but to take the climber side hand and PUSH THE DEVICE slightly away from you ...

- if the rope is really thick and fuzzy, simply belay in low friction mode in the guide

;)

Yeah in both instances I don't have any problem at all, so idk.

Also had a guy tell me that a rap was so low angle that he couldn't feed. Again no problem on my part. In this instance it surely had to be biner/device combo, but I was using same, ATC Guide.

EDIT: For the earlier mentioned example: the low friction isn't an option for guide mode so??? think the problem was two different diameter ropes, bringing two climbers at same time, and leader wanted to just grab both ropes and pull equally. Where he needed to be paying equal attention to the ropes individually.

bearbreeder wrote: i used the boa for the first year and a half with the alpine smart ... it worked just fine for me except it wore out to a sharp edge many of my partners at the time also used the boa ... they eventually swapped to the williams as well not because it didnt work well with the smart, but because of the wear issue ;)

I guess our definitions of "work well" may be different, which is fine.

Mine includes effectively locking up on raps with two ropes of identical size, for example. The assym shape of the BOA makes this much harder to do. It has a lot to do with the shape of the biner and how it wants to align itself to the direction of force when you weight it (or your leader falls when you belay from below)

Minor details, I guess.

Tom Sherman wrote:Yeah in both instances I don't have any problem at all, so idk. Also had a guy tell me that a rap was so low angle that he couldn't feed. Again no problem on my part. In this instance it surely had to be biner/device combo, but I was using same, ATC Guide.

another tip ... for rap .... when the rope is so thick and fuzzy that it has too much friction, even with low friction mode ...

keep both hands below the device and bring the rope parallel briefly for feeding with one hand, while keeping the other hand below the device

the trick is to PUSH the rope through ...

when working with thick and fuzzy ropes, FEED the rope into the device by shoving the rope like its cookies down cookie monstahs throat

being able to belay/use thicker stiffer ropes smoothly is quite a bit different from using thinner slicker ropes

;)

Adam Burch wrote: I guess our definitions of "work well" may be different, which is fine. Mine includes effectively locking up on raps with two ropes of identical size, for example. The assym shape of the BOA makes this much harder to do. It has a lot to do with the shape of the biner and how it wants to align itself to the direction of force when you weight it (or your leader falls when you belay from below) Minor details, I guess.

earlier last year i was on a thick n fuzzay 10.2mm tendon rope on 2 strand rappel ... this was with my alpine smart with a williams

i tied a knot about 6 feet below the device, as is my usual practice when rapping alone ... i leaned forward to take off my safety and leaned back, hands free ... as the alpine smart "usually" holds on thick ropes and if it slips, it "slips slowly"

next think i know i hit the knot hard, the rope just zipped right through on a dual strand thick and fuzzy 10.2mm rope ...

i would be VERY careful with any thoughts of "effective lock up" ... i use to think that the smart would probably lock up or at worst go down slowly when hands free on thick fuzzy ropes ...

it only has to happen one time to kill u