Mountain Project Logo

Fixed biner position at both ends of draw?

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

To the OP, at 5'5", I can sympathize. But, don't use a "stiffy" on both ends unless you intend to clip another draw with opposing biner on the same bolt before you move past it. What Petzl shows can happen, and probably has.
I would recommend getting a few long (12" or 30 cm) dogbones so that you have some "long" draws for those reachy clips. Tho long draws do not make it easier to clip the draw to the bolt, it does make it easier to clip the rope to the draw.

Leify Guy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 367

a huge issue for me is if you're clipping the rope side of your draw into the bolt and fall on it, the fall will cause little grooves/ sharp edges in the carabiner, if you decide to clip the opposite way the next time and fall on the side that was once clipped into the wall, the damaged biner can and will fray and damage your rope.

Mike Marmar · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 67

I was witness to an accident last year at Rumney where the last draw came unclipped just before the climber fell. Unfortunately he had also backcleaned the draw before that. He screwed up his arm/wrist/hand pretty badly in the 40+ft fall. mountainproject.com/v/quick…

When I make a critical clip on a line that traverses or introduces drag, I will flip the bolt end biner to prevent this. Can't do that if it's fixed.

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

I'll add to the chorus:

Have you ever screwed up a clip, when you were clipping a bolt at arms length above your head?

I have: I came off with all that rope in my hand, before I got the clip. What should have been a 5-6 foot fall became a 20' fall, with my (lighter) belayer's feet above my head, and my feet dusting the ground. I was about 3 feet past the bolt, from my waist, plus about 6 feet of rope pulled up in my hand, plus belayer lifting up, plus stretch: it added up quick!

I try not to clip high any more... ;-)

You pull up 3' to 6' of rope when you clip high. That's 6' to 12' of extra fall if something goes wrong.

But I suppose keeping one really stiff draw, fixed at both ends, might be worth it. It also really sucks when you have to launch into the crux before you can clip. This doesn't happen to me often (I'm 5' 7"), but every once in a blue moon it does.

I know, rationally, that it is often safer to climb higher and then clip. It's not always easy to convince yourself of that, though, when on a tough lead.

George Bracksieck · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 3,393

Except for use in "stiffies" that enable clipping hard-to-reach bolt hangers, the bolt-clipping biner should ALWAYS be floppy. I almost always rotate the top biner through the bolt hanger so that the gate opens down and out, facing away from the direction in which I'll be climbing. This greatly reduces the possibility of the cross-loading the top biner. It also greatly reduces the possibility of the biner unclipping from the bolt hanger. If I'm too tired to rotate the top biner, I would have clipped the top biner so that the gate faces away from the direction I plan to be climbing, when moving past and when moving above the clip. No doubt you all have seen a top biner slide through a bolt hanger so that the biner is lying at least half way from the corner that lies along the major axis to the gate opening. This almost always happens when the leader climbs to the same side that the gate faces. Carabiners aren't designed to be loaded near the gate opening.

More than a year ago, someone claimed to have broken a Petzl Spirit during a sport-climbing fall. I suspect that the biner had already been worn by the sharp edges of steel hangers into the same corner of the aluminum biner, during the impacts of many short falls and grinding hangs (i.e., "projecting"). Finally, falling from a position that cross-loaded the biner (i.e., from the side of the draw toward which the gate opened up and out) was probably the straw that broke the biner at that worn corner.

The rope-end biner of a draw should NEVER be floppy. "Tying" it to the sling makes clipping the rope easier and prevents the biner from rotating around the sling, such that the biner could become cross-loaded during impact. A cross-loaded biner is much weaker than one loaded along its major axis. I also want my rope-bearing biner gate to face away from the direction I'll be taking past the clip. This reduces the chance of the rope unclipping from the biner during a fall — something I've seen happen more than once. A bent gate increases the possibility of such rope unclips; clipping a second draw to the same bolt and clipping the rope to it will greatly reduce the possibility of a rope unclip.

When I lead, I will almost always be attempting an onsight. I prefer adventure to repetition. I carry mostly shorter sport draws, along with some long ones and some alpine draws. I hand-made eight- and sixteen-inch stiffies. Sometimes I carry one or both. I've been grateful to clip either into poorly located bolts.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Sport Climbing
Post a Reply to "Fixed biner position at both ends of draw?"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.