Still in bag, BD Cirrus dry rope from 1999. Still good?

Just looking for some opinions. Was stored properly and never even uncoiled. along with some BD cams. Just looking for some information about degrading materials. Seem to be a lot on the net about older stuff but not so much more modern materials and their lifespan whilst stored for prolonged periods before being used.

a few pix for reference.

rope and cams

rope and cams again

still good to use? maybe a few less factor 2 falls? top rope?

Danyl Britts wrote:Just looking for some opinions. Was stored properly and never even uncoiled. along with some BD cams. Just looking for some information about degrading materials. Seem to be a lot on the net about older stuff but not so much more modern materials and their lifespan whilst stored for prolonged periods before being used. a few pix for reference. still good to use? maybe a few less factor 2 falls? top rope?

I would have no problem leading on any of that if you are sure it was stored in a good area away from chemicals. I would sell the cams though. 2nd generation Camalots that are brand new? You might have the only brand new ones left on the planet. I bet someone would be willing to pay some cash for that. Put them up for FS and see what you get. You might get enough to buy new C4s.

Also, FYI, Beal says the maximum storage and in-use lifespan of a rope is 15 years, and that's probably on the conservative side. I am also confident there are plenty of pre-1999 cars out there with nylon seatbelts that still hold just fine in a crash.

I was thinking about the whole seatbelt thing not too long ago. I realized that in my entire career as an automotive technician, not once have I ever read or heard anything about replacement of seat belts due to age. I've replaced them because of dogs eating them and having obvious damage, but not just because they were beyond a certain age. Maybe I'll give someone at Honda a call later on today and see if they can find that out.

I think the rope should be fine, but being it is your lifeline, maybe err on the side of caution.

Based on this (fairly simple google search I might add) theuiaa.org/upload_area/fil… I think you are perfectly safe using that rope.

Still fine to use.

Be careful to knot the belayer's end -- lots of climbs put up in the last while assume (at least) a 60m rope -- and with a 50m, you don't want to lower-off past the end of the rope.

20 kN wrote: I would have no problem leading on any of that if you are sure it was stored in a good area away from chemicals. I would sell the cams though. 2nd generation Camalots that are brand new? You might have the only brand new ones left on the planet. I bet someone would be willing to pay some cash for that. Put them up for FS and see what you get. You might get enough to buy new C4s. Also, FYI, Beal says the maximum storage and in-use lifespan of a rope is 15 years, and that's probably on the conservative side. I am also confident they are plenty of pre-1999 cars out there with nylon seatbelts that still hold just fine in a crash.

Great info and some food for thought. Thanks for sharing! Ya a seatbelt is a great item to juxtapose with ropes.

Some more pix of the cams. Ya maybe ill post them up.

Cam detail

Lobe profile

David Morgantini wrote:Based on this (fairly simple google search I might add) theuiaa.org/upload_area/fil… I think you are perfectly safe using that rope.

I actually skimmed this article yesterday and seemed to overlook that second paragraph hah. Thanks for posting it.

I second the idea that the greatest risk in using that rope will be lowering or rapping off the end of it. I TR on rope of that age quite frequently, but understand that others get the willies at the thought. (That's OK, somebody has to keep the climbing retailers in business)

Seat belts and climbing ropes are practically identical in design and function. So they make great analogies. NOT!!

20kN's advice is still valid nonetheless.

David Gibbs wrote:Be careful to knot the belayer's end -- lots of climbs put up in the last while assume (at least) a 60m rope -- and with a 50m, you don't want to lower-off past the end of the rope.

Gunkiemike wrote:I second the idea that the greatest risk in using that rope will be lowering or rapping off the end of it.

Yeah watch out for this totally unrelated threat that implies you're an idiot and don't know how to climb safely.

Greg D wrote:Seat belts and climbing ropes are practically identical in design and function. So they make great analogies. NOT!! 20kN's advice is still valid nonetheless.

I read NOT in the Borat voice.

It was just a loose comparison and, given the couple similar elements a seat-belt endures overtime, worth noting.

Kevin Pula wrote: Yeah watch out for this totally unrelated threat that implies you're an idiot and don't know how to climb safely.

They saw the 50m tag and just gave me a heads up. I scarcely see a 50m rope for sale at the local REI. A new climber could see someone assuming its a 60m without looking at the tip. I haven't observed any negative implications by any of the posts.

Greg D wrote:Seat belts and climbing ropes are practically identical in design and function. So they make great analogies. NOT!! 20kN's advice is still valid nonetheless.

They are made out of the same material—polyamide/ nylon 6-6. If the concern is whether the material used in the manufacturer of the rope breaks down with time, then using a seatbelt, which is very similar in material design, is certainly a reasonable analogy for this purpose, especially considering seatbelts are so widely used and subjected to a massive range of environments.

Of course nylon does in fact breakdown solely from age and UV exposure as nothing lasts forever, just not enough to really be a concern unless the rope is discolored from the sun or old enough to have been used before cams existed.

Here is a better supporting argument: recall the last time a new dynamic rope failed solely from age.

20 kN wrote: They are made out of the same material—polyamide/ nylon 6-6. If the concern is whether the material used in the manufacturer of the rope breaks down with time, then using a seatbelt, which is very similar in material design, is certainly a reasonable analogy for this purpose, especially considering seatbelts are so widely used and subjected to a massive range of environments. Of course nylon does in fact breakdown solely from age and UV exposure as nothing lasts forever, just not enough to really be a concern unless the rope is discolored from the sun or old enough to have been used before cams existed. Here is a better supporting argument: recall the last time a new dynamic rope failed solely from age.

Hmmm. There´s around 35 million pounds of high tenacity polyester used in the US car industry for seat belts and no nylon. For example:- “Seat belts need to outlive the car,” says Woody Dew, president of Tennessee Webbing in Knoxville. “You can find 20-year-old vehicles in the junkyard where the whole seat belt assembly still performs flawlessly.”
The seat belts are made of 100 percent high-tenacity polyester. “It is the perfect fiber for this application because it doesn’t change,” Dew notes. “It doesn’t shrink or stretch over time.”

The only place nylon has been used in recent years has been in race cars but concerns over age weakening and lower strength overall (and poor stretch characteristics) means most are converting to polyester for this as well.

In other words comparing car seat belts and climbing ropes is stupid.

And almost all or all sanctioning bodies require replacement of race harnesses every 5 years or so. A rope is like $100. If I had questions as to whether it was safe, and the mfg suggested it was at end of life, I think I'd pass. Plus I suspect rope has improved in 15 years.

Jim Titt wrote: Hmmm. There´s around 35 million pounds of high tenacity polyester used in the US car industry for seat belts and no nylon. For example:- “Seat belts need to outlive the car,” says Woody Dew, president of Tennessee Webbing in Knoxville. “You can find 20-year-old vehicles in the junkyard where the whole seat belt assembly still performs flawlessly.” The seat belts are made of 100 percent high-tenacity polyester. “It is the perfect fiber for this application because it doesn’t change,” Dew notes. “It doesn’t shrink or stretch over time.” The only place nylon has been used in recent years has been in race cars but concerns over age weakening and lower strength overall (and poor stretch characteristics) means most are converting to polyester for this as well. In other words comparing car seat belts and climbing ropes is stupid.

Interesting, good to know. I was under the understanding that it was made out of nylon since a quite reputable webbing manufacturer in the United States told me they have made almost a million feet of 100% nylon webbing used in automotive seatbelts.

brand new 2nd gen camalots are not really that uncommon,i've seen them several times on craigslist. a few months ago I saw brand new 1st gen rigid stem cams for sale, 30+ years old and still had tags. it's amazing how many people spend big money on climbing gear and then throw it in the closet and never use it.

as far as the rope is concerned, I think it's fine but since no one else has said it: "Yer gonna die!!!".

^ Got two brand new 3.5's like that. Yeah buddy I'll sure as shit take those from you.

george wilkey wrote:brand new 2nd gen camalots are not really that uncommon,i've seen them several times on craigslist. a few months ago I saw brand new 1st gen rigid stem cams for sale, 30+ years old and still had tags. it's amazing how many people spend big money on climbing gear and then throw it in the closet and never use it. as far as the rope is concerned, I think it's fine but since no one else has said it: "Yer gonna die!!!".

Haha, well atleast i scored some new cams for cheap. webbing looks good. rope looks a good color, no awkward or tinted spots when compared to the rope that was coiled toward the center, vs the outer most coils. I just wanted a beater rope for top rope days, and to spare the expensive dry rope from the damage.

And it was just a nice thought to hear something was worth more than I paid for it but im glad i scooped some decent gear for a good price. Hah, i hope i don't die but thanks for at least playing devils advocate.

Scott McMahon wrote:^ Got two brand new 3.5's like that. Yeah buddy I'll sure as shit take those from you.

You got two new cams that way, on craigslist? Nice man.