Rope solo lead with TWO ropes and two separate devices
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Hello, |
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Febs wrote:Hello, here's why I am thinking about that. I have a crag quite close to home. Its pitches are very short. Very, indeed: like, ten meters (33ft) or just a little bit more. I climb using a Silent Partner, but as recommended in its instructions, I don't want to trust my life to a single device. You know, I love to climb and I want to do it for a long time to come. So I tie and untie backup knots. Now, this is very time consuming especially for such short pitches. The setup almost takes the same time as the climb itself. So yesterday I was thinking: what about using two strands of rope, each with a different device? The SP on one, and, for instance, the gri-gri on the other. What I am afraid of, is that the two could interfere each other and be detrimental to my safety rather than helpful. Example: the gri-gri fails to lock but slows my fall enough so that the SP don't lock as well. Is this TOO paranoid or does it make sense? Any comments, or other tips to lead solo with a fast backup would be really appreciated. Many thanks!Double rope systems are the standard in commercial rigging, but fairly unheard of in recreational climbing. However, you can use two ropes. Done properly, they are safer. A good option would be to use a Petzl ASAP on the second rope. That device is explicitly designed for what you would be using it for (except tailored to commercial riggers). A much cheaper option would be to use a Mini Traxion and chest harness on the second rope. Personally, I would not have a problem using just the Silent Partner. I dont think there has ever been a recorded instance of one of those failing to lock. Their internal components are very redundant (5-way if I recall). My only concern would be the carabiners breaking as a result of weird loading, but that can easily be tamed with steel biners or quicklinks. |
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Thanks for your reply. I watched some official Petzl videos about the ASAP and as far as I could understand it would be only suitable for top-roping, I can't imagine how to use it for leading. Do you use it for solo lead? |
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That system sounds like a serious pain to me, I use a Soloist and rarely tie back up knots as the thing has never even slipped an inch on me (coil the rope at the bottom and hang it a few feet off the ground)....generally I'm soloing things I won't fall on though. I have taken some bigger falls on it though and it's never failed to lock. |
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Nick Votto wrote:That system sounds like a serious pain to me, I use a Soloist and rarely tie back up knots as the thing has never even slipped an inch on me (coil the rope at the bottom and hang it a few feet off the ground)....generally I'm soloing things I won't fall on though. I have taken some bigger falls on it though and it's never failed to lock.I used to use a Soloist a fair amount. As I'm sure you're well aware, this device will slip if you fall upside down. A fall pulling a roof, or on a slab, or while pulling on gear (especially aid climbing) are all common situations where it is easy to get the Soloist to slip. And I have this happen at least once in each of these situations, although I did not always reach the backup knot before righting myself to have he device lock. I now own a Silent Partner. I was never completely happy with the chest harness and the feeding of the Soloist. I don't have enough experience yet with the Soloist to comment on the reliability of its locking, but I'd guess it is very reliable. If I were leading on something that short, I'd probably still use a backup knot, but it might only require one or two. One or two backup knots, pre-tied on the ground, still sounds a lot easier than a second device. |
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I've never used 2 devices, but it's probably much more of a pain than using the one device with backup knots. Heck, on something that short it would probably just be easier to use multiple backup knots and unclip them as you go. |
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Thanks all for the replies, It's a railway bridge with bolts. :) 3) The difficulties there are all around my limit, so falling is something that is gonna happen for real and often. 4) I actually fell intentionally on the SP once and it locked well and pretty fast. So, *that* is the place where I would go, and unfortunately the pitches are short and - to me - pretty hard. So, I do really want a backup. Any advice about any backup system that is reliable and not as bothering as tying and untying knots would be totally loved. In this case I have no issues in carrying a lot of extra bulk there (a second rope, a second unit, whatever) to the spot since it's a 5 minutes bike ride from the railway station. Of course I wouln't consider that for any place with a serious approach, I would patiently tie all the required knots there. :) Thank you! |
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So are you truly "solo leading" or solo top roping? |
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I am solo LEADING. The picture shows a guy top-roping but that's not me. |
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I am solo LEADING. The picture shows a guy top-roping but that's not me. I just don't have nobody carrying a rope to the top anchor for me, and I don't want one. :) |
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Honestly, I wouldn't bother at all with leading stuff that short. Too high a risk for injury. When you consider that both the Silent Partner and Soloist have some amount of "slip" before they lock up, you're looking at ground fall potential pretty much the entirety of your climb. I wouldn't risk the broken ankles just to lead on a 33' tall railway buttress. That's lunacy. |
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Seriously, I can't stand when people asks for tips about solo rope climbing and gets a "find someone to climb with" answer. |
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Febs wrote:I cannot top rope that placeBut...didn't you attach a picture of somebody TRing it? |
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Ian Stewart wrote: But...didn't you attach a picture of somebody TRing it?Not solo! Or, somebody else put the rope to the top for him (it's hard to say from the pic). But no, there is NO way to reach the top anchors from above. So I guess I'll have to buy the jet pack. |
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Febs wrote: Not solo! Or, somebody else put the rope to the top for him (it's hard to say from the pic). But no, there is NO way to reach the top anchors from above.Ah, ok. So top roping is possible, you just need to get to the anchor from the bottom, first. 33ft tall, eh...I think I've seen stick clips that long. =) |
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Febs wrote:Thanks for your reply. I watched some official Petzl videos about the ASAP and as far as I could understand it would be only suitable for top-roping, I can't imagine how to use it for leading. Do you use it for solo lead? Many thanksSorry, I thought we were talking about TR. If you're leading, then you are right the ASAP or Mini Traxion will not work. |
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I use a Petzl Rescucender, the larger version of the mini-cender(micro?) but it doesn't have teethand relies solely on camming. It will slip at 700kg (according to Petzl, I haven't put that much weight on it), but that would still require a pretty good fall to reach that force (probably at least 10x your body). So that might be an option for a secondary device. |
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Taking a lead fall on two single ropes would result in a dangerous impact force, I believe. |
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aed wrote:Taking a lead fall on two single ropes would result in a dangerous impact force, I believe. Were you planning on using a half or twin rope setup?The Silent Partner is to be used only with single ropes, and most, if not all, solo devices (officially thought for soloing or not) are to be used with single ropes, AFAIK. So I am actually thinking about two single ropes. For once, weight and bulk is not an issue. |