LRC and Leda fees

From Stone Fort Bouldering's Facebook page :

Attention Climbers ~

Effective August 1st, 2014 our daily rate will be $6.00 plus tax. Children 12 and under will be $1.00 plus tax.

Just a little reminder of some of the rules. Everyone, even spectators, that enter the boulder field must sign in at the clubhouse, pay & obtain the daily wristband. We are located inside a residential neighborhood so all climbers/visitors must leave upon nightfall. Night climbing & camping is not permitted. Glass of any kind is not permitted in the boulder field. Outside alcoholic beverages are not permitted. No pets! Please leave your pets at home. We will not allow pets to stay inside a hot vehicle during the hot summer months.

Visitors and climbers of LEDA are also required to come into the clubhouse, sign the waiver, pay and get a receipt/wristband/sign to display on the dash of your vehicle.

Please follow the rules so everyone can enjoy Stone Fort Bouldering. Complete rules are posted onsite & the S.E.Climbers website.

you're joking about the Leda part right? if not that's fucked up. there is absolutely no reason for me to pay some country club to go climbing at leda unless I'm using their parking lot. I'm not going to pay money to go climbing

eli poss wrote: I'm not going to pay money to go climbing

Unless you only climb on private land (your own), you HAVE paid for climbing or somebody else has paid for you.
AND if you've climbed on many public (or private open to the public) land areas in the Southeast, the SCC has done a lot of work and paid for a lot to keep climbing 'free'. You should join, it's a lot cheaper than golf fees, and you'll be paying your own way.

I understand the fees for stone fort because they allow us to use their facilities and parking, however those services are not provided at Leda. Even the current parking area and approach trail was put in by volunteers from a local school. Agree it's pretty lame but at the end of the day the land is theirs to do with as they please and apparently they want to make $$$. It would be nice if the landowners would put some of this money back into Leda...the trail near vogen slab needs some major attention and I'm sure the SCC wouldn't mind some financial assistance for bolt&anchor replacement.
I am a member of theSCC, I pay my taxes, and I support local climbing community.... See y'all at Foster Falls!

Definitely understand Stone Fort fees, but Leda??? Come on....that's lame.

Are you guys cool with Henry Luken using your property any time he wants for free, and participating in activities on your property which could very well result in serious injury? Injury for which you could be sued? Obviously these questions are rhetorical...

Closing down the parking areas has already severely reduced traffic to LEDA enforcing a fee would all but wipe out most of the regular traffic. As it is where many of the areas newer climbers learn how to climb out side,(I learned to climb there)I am very curious to see the impact on the areas other climbing if this area is effectively closed.
Does anyone know if this fee will effect Lower LEDA as well. Do the Henry Luken own that property as well.

Mr. Luken is more than welcome to hang out in my backyard anytime he wants, but i would ask that he sign a waiver before traveling from soddy daisy to my house by vehicle. Driving is a very dangerous activity and I wouldn't want to be held responsible in the event of accident or injury. Don't mean to be sassy just trying to bring a little humor to the discussion. :)

liability is a serious issue for all landowners, but the rule is and has been to sign a waiver releasing Mr. Luken from responsibility if someone is injured on his property climbing. This has been passively required at the crag - so maybe people are climbing there and not signing. Fine, make us drive up and sign at the golf course, sign via the SCC website, or gate & lock the parking like at deep creek.

Charging a fee is about making $$$ and Mr. Luken is a smart business man. He has profitted from the bouldering community during the winters when his golf course doesn't make $$$, and I'm sure is looking to cash in on the popularity of leda as well. Again its his property, and his purogative. Its also my purogative to voice my opinion and climb elsewhere.

Hopefully access fund and SCC will get something worked out with Mr. Luken

Why should he let everyone use it for free?

Just curious.

It's probably worth noting that if you use the "I'm not going to pay money to go climbing" as your decision point, you'll never climb at the Gunks, Hueco Tanks, Yosemite, Zion or a number of other places in the US that charge day use fees or require an annual pass.

Brian Payst wrote:It's probably worth noting that if you use the "I'm not going to pay money to go climbing" as your decision point, you'll never climb at the Gunks, Hueco Tanks, Yosemite, Zion or a number of other places in the US that charge day use fees or require an annual pass.

Word!!! Not to mention HP40 & Rock Town, the other 2 of the Big 3. There's no logic in feeling like you have a right to use someone else's resource without compensating them...all of these spots are cheaper than most daily passes at a local gym and the value of taking care of these areas by contributing your part is immeasurable to the sustainability of being able to continue bouldering there.

why should we have to pay money to enjoy nature and the rock it provides? it is on private property but the owner is in no way liable for any injuries of mine as i signed a waiver at the kiosk. i fully understand and accept the fees with stone fort but that is because i would be parking in his lot. the climbers lot is not owned by the golf club nor was it built by it. it was built by McCallie and SCC to provide access to Leda for climbers. if they are going to charge us money, the golf course should provide some services to climbers at Leda. oh and i compensate the owners by helping keep the crag clean. every time i go there i pick up at least 5 pieces of trash and pack it out so the crag doesn't become a landfill, although landfills are so very fun to climb (sarcasm)

If you think paying six dollars and signing a waiver is going to get the landowner off the hook if someone gets hurt you are fooling yourself. Fact is the landowner puts himself, his family, and his business at risk every time he allows someone to climb at Leda. Do you know how much he pays per month for the land you want to use for free? What about insurance?

Problem is everyone wants something for nothing.

eli poss wrote:why should we have to pay money to enjoy nature and the rock it provides?

Because you don't own this particular piece of land, it's not publicly held, and the landowner has decided he would like to charge for access. The service they provide you is the privilege of climbing on their land. I see ZERO problem with this. Are you saying that if LRC still abutted the golf course, was still owned by the same man, but had public parking, you would throw the same shit fit about fees? It's okay to charge for parking, but not to actually use the property the man owns?!

My mind is blown by the level of entitlement shown by this line of thinking. He owns a piece of property that has value to you (good climbing). He would like compensation in exchange for providing that value. What, exactly, is wrong with that? If you don't feel that the value provided is in line with the cost, then don't go. There is a TON of climbing around you that is free.

This seems unfortunate only because it's been free for so long, but I do think it's a nominal fee. Like others have voiced, most of the best climbing in the US requires entrance fees/day passes, etc to climb. SCC, of which I am a member, has done an incredible job of purchasing private land to make climbing more accessible, legal, and "free." I understand the news is a bit "lame," but hey, at least the landowner didn't close down Leda altogether! Up here in Knoxville, Cherokee Bluff, right on the Tennessee River, was open to climbing up until 2009 when the landowner finally said "no more climbing!" I would be thrilled to pay $6 to climb at Cherokee Bluff, but instead I have to stare at it every day from across the river hoping one day the landowner will be gracious enough to open it back up.

^^^^ This.

My first reaction was to be pissed, too. "All the way to the clubhouse!?! Six bucks?!?"

But all things considered, it's not that bad. I'd rather have the option to pay to climb than not be able to climb at all.

Leda isn't worth more than $1/day to climb at, maybe less.

Are there other places to climb in town?

6 bucks for world class climbing is a steal

I have absolutely no problem paying for access, but prefer to spend my money where I know it will be at least partially used to improve or more importantly maintain the area. I see it as an investment. He could easily turn a profit here and at the same time help keep Leda maintained, something that has been done by volunteers and the scc to date. I guess time will tell on this one.

It is 100% the landowner's right to charge for the privilege of using his land...absolutely. It's also well within my rights to voice my disappointment in this decision. that doesn't mean I am entitled. After years of being free access, I do question his motives and I really don't think liability is the motivation here. I would very interested to see the number of personal injury lawsuits that have been brought against Mr. Luken as the result of climbing at Leda and/or stone fort.

I do think it is a good point that the area is not shut down completely and hopefully it won't come to that...mr Luken would probably loose a nice bit of income if he closed climbing down...especially at stone fort.

There is plenty of other fantastic climbing in this area, paid and "free". Just my 2cents.

Brad Caldwell wrote: Word!!! Not to mention HP40 & Rock Town, the other 2 of the Big 3. There's no logic in feeling like you have a right to use someone else's resource without compensating them...all of these spots are cheaper than most daily passes at a local gym and the value of taking care of these areas by contributing your part is immeasurable to the sustainability of being able to continue bouldering there.

Are you comparing Leda to these places? Haha. No where close to quality or quantity. Could you imagine an amusement park where the paying customers maintain all the rides and walkways to the rides... This is an investors paradise. Climbers are being fleeced, plain and simple. While the $6 is worth the Stone Fort pass, it is not for Leda. I agree with the statement that there are better, free climbing locations around that area. If this money were being used to recoup the cost of paving the new parking area, that would be fine. Make it free after that. Paying to recreate seems like a regressive tax system.

"Paying to recreate seems like a regressive tax system."

Just how exactly is using private property for a fee a "tax system?" I do not think that private entities have the power to tax. And what is wrong with owner using private property for profit? Does a private land owner have a duty to make their land available on a non-profit basis? Also, I'm sure the land owner in this case carries insurance, which is probably where your $6.00 go.